It has been ordered... - Page 3

jualdeaux · September 29th, 2007, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Morgan

Congratulations! You just used the internet to inform the world of your straw purchase. Hope ya don't get busted.

it will only be a straw purchase if his BIL fills out the paperwork.

PackerfanXD · September 29th, 2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jualdeaux

it will only be a straw purchase if his BIL fills out the paperwork.

It would be a straw purchase if I was unable to own a firearm legally.

jualdeaux · September 29th, 2007, 03:45 PM

I believe the first question asked on the 4473 is are you the actual purchaser of the firearm? What is your BIL going to say? Yes? It is your money. You chose what to buy. You are the one who initiated the buy. He is filling out the paperwork but you are the actual purchaser.

Sounds like a straw purchase to me. Not to mention that you are having an LEO make a false statement on an official federal government document.

I looked into this once myself. I was thinking about trying to get my brother to do just this in order to get his MIL discount on something. I decided that I wasn't even going to ask him about it as I wasn't willing to even take the risk of him getting into serious trouble and losing his position and worse. I even started a thread about it here. here is the link.

Would this still be considered an illegal straw purchase?

PackerfanXD · September 29th, 2007, 06:14 PM

Think what you'd like.

A straw purchase by definition is: any purchase where the buyer is not eligible to own the purchased item according to the law and therefore purchases the item through a proxy buyer.

Travis Morgan · September 30th, 2007, 05:56 AM

Hey, do whatever you wanna do. Getting us to agree with you won't mean squat to the Attorney General. On the bright side, since you keep responding to this thread, and expanding your exposure, if you DO get busted, it'll be a stern warning to others that insist on using their own interpretation of a law that's pretty damn clear.

PackerfanXD · September 30th, 2007, 11:50 AM

Last time for those ignorant of what a straw purchase is;

A straw purchase is when a a person who may not buy a firearm gets a legally eligible buyer to purchase said firearm for him. Read:

Cite as U.S. v. Dollar, 25 F.Supp.2d 1320 (N.D.Ala. 1998)
United States of America, Plaintiff,
v.
William O. Dollar and Connie Jean Dollar, Defendants.
No. CR-97-C-0138-S
United States District Court, N.D. Alabama, Southern Division.
Oct. 9, 1998.

Here's the pertinent part:

II. THE DEFINITION OF "STRAW PURCHASES"

At the heart of the Government's case is the theory that the
defendants and others conspired to conceal "straw purchases" of
firearms for the purpose of allaying the anticipated suspicion of
the ATF that the co-conspirators were engaged in the illegal resale
of the firearms. Central to the case is the legal definition of
"straw purchases."

The term "straw purchase" is not defined in either the United
States Code or the Code of Federal Regulations. It is in fact a
judicially created doctrine, a construction of one of the
provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. section
922(a)(6). [footnote 3] See United States v. Moore, 84 F.3d 1567,
1573 (9th Cir. 1996).

One purpose of the Act is to "keep firearms away from the
persons Congress classified as potentially irresponsible and
dangerous." Barrett v. United States, 423 U.S. 212, 218, 96 S.Ct.
498, 502, 46 L.Ed.2d 450 (1976). Prohibiting sham or "strawman"
purchases serves this purpose. This *1323 occurs when a lawful
purchaser buys for an unlawful one. [A] dealer who sells a gun
knowing, or with reason to know, it is for an unlawful possessor,
violates the Act. Perri v. Department of the Treasury, 637 F.2d
1332 (9th Cir. 1981).

You can read the whole thing at:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu...s_v_dollar.txt

Travis Morgan · October 1st, 2007, 04:29 AM

It's your anus. Risk it all you want.

AutoFan · October 1st, 2007, 05:03 PM

What his BIL did is no more a straw purchase than if you bought a gun as gift for someone who was legally qualified to own a gun. As a matter of fact, the law specifically allows just such purchases.

September 29th, 2007, 06:14 PM	#24
PackerfanXD Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ground zero of the invasion Posts: 663	Think what you'd like. A straw purchase by definition is: any purchase where the buyer is not eligible to own the purchased item according to the law and therefore purchases the item through a proxy buyer. __________________ The wealthiest nation in the world with the mightiest army man has ever assembled could not stop them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJhD-72v958 Free Ramos and Campion

September 30th, 2007, 11:50 AM	#26
PackerfanXD Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ground zero of the invasion Posts: 663	Last time for those ignorant of what a straw purchase is; A straw purchase is when a a person who may not buy a firearm gets a legally eligible buyer to purchase said firearm for him. Read: Cite as U.S. v. Dollar, 25 F.Supp.2d 1320 (N.D.Ala. 1998) United States of America, Plaintiff, v. William O. Dollar and Connie Jean Dollar, Defendants. No. CR-97-C-0138-S United States District Court, N.D. Alabama, Southern Division. Oct. 9, 1998. Here's the pertinent part: II. THE DEFINITION OF "STRAW PURCHASES" At the heart of the Government's case is the theory that the defendants and others conspired to conceal "straw purchases" of firearms for the purpose of allaying the anticipated suspicion of the ATF that the co-conspirators were engaged in the illegal resale of the firearms. Central to the case is the legal definition of "straw purchases." The term "straw purchase" is not defined in either the United States Code or the Code of Federal Regulations. It is in fact a judicially created doctrine, a construction of one of the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. section 922(a)(6). [footnote 3] See United States v. Moore, 84 F.3d 1567, 1573 (9th Cir. 1996). One purpose of the Act is to "keep firearms away from the persons Congress classified as potentially irresponsible and dangerous." Barrett v. United States, 423 U.S. 212, 218, 96 S.Ct. 498, 502, 46 L.Ed.2d 450 (1976). Prohibiting sham or "strawman" purchases serves this purpose. This 1323 occurs when a lawful purchaser buys for an unlawful one. [A] dealer who sells a gun knowing, or with reason to know, it is for an unlawful possessor, violates the Act. Perri v. Department of the Treasury, 637 F.2d 1332 (9th Cir. 1981). You can read the whole thing at: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu...s_v_dollar.txt __________________ The wealthiest nation in the world with the mightiest army man has ever assembled could not stop them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJhD-72v958 Free Ramos and Campion*

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September 29th, 2007, 03:45 PM	#23
jualdeaux Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Waponi Woo Posts: 768	I believe the first question asked on the 4473 is are you the actual purchaser of the firearm? What is your BIL going to say? Yes? It is your money. You chose what to buy. You are the one who initiated the buy. He is filling out the paperwork but you are the actual purchaser. Sounds like a straw purchase to me. Not to mention that you are having an LEO make a false statement on an official federal government document. I looked into this once myself. I was thinking about trying to get my brother to do just this in order to get his MIL discount on something. I decided that I wasn't even going to ask him about it as I wasn't willing to even take the risk of him getting into serious trouble and losing his position and worse. I even started a thread about it here. here is the link. Would this still be considered an illegal straw purchase?

September 30th, 2007, 05:56 AM	#25
Travis Morgan Ex Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Wichita, Ks. Posts: 95	Hey, do whatever you wanna do. Getting us to agree with you won't mean squat to the Attorney General. On the bright side, since you keep responding to this thread, and expanding your exposure, if you DO get busted, it'll be a stern warning to others that insist on using their own interpretation of a law that's pretty damn clear.

October 1st, 2007, 04:29 AM	#27
Travis Morgan Ex Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Wichita, Ks. Posts: 95	It's your anus. Risk it all you want.

October 1st, 2007, 05:03 PM	#28
AutoFan Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Sunshine State Posts: 954	What his BIL did is no more a straw purchase than if you bought a gun as gift for someone who was legally qualified to own a gun. As a matter of fact, the law specifically allows just such purchases.