pgrass101

My thinking on a pistol caliber carbine is that,

I am more accurate with a weapon I can shoulder.

I can shot through walls.

I have more magazine capacity.

I'm using the same round as my pistol.

Reduced recoil = more shoots on target or missing faster.

I have a full size FAL that I would use in most situations, but in a house is not one of them. A short pistol caliber carbine would be idea for that situation.

__________________
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SIXTO

Normally, I would agree with your thoughts about it, but I am changing my song a little. Here is where I’m coming from with this;

223 ( and other battle rifle calibers) is becoming near impossible to come across at a reasonable price. I have my stockpile, but its getting darn expensive for a normal range trip. I want and need to maintain my stock levels too. So, I started to come up with the alternatives.
I am thinking that I trust a pistol round to be effective all of the time. Why would it be any different in a true shtf situation? People are not going to be super humans or anything else, if anything they would be weaker than normal.
If I can deliver that same pistol round more accurate and at a longer distance, I’ll take it. Being honest with myself, I really don’t see taking the Hail Mary 100 plus yard shots that would require a true rifle. I’m not discounting the importance of the rifle of course. It has its role, but the pistol calibers can and will do a lot of the work that a rifle was doing.

I can also practice a whole lot more for a couple of reasons.
First as already addressed, money. I can also build and keep the war chest up quicker as well, keeping calibers to a minimum.
I can also use pistol ranges, and not have to travel to rifle ranges every range session. This saves me time and money.

It seems as if its a win win to use a pistol caliber carbine.

__________________
In a land of sheep, even a toothless wolf is king.

"We don't have to worry about the cost of my federal programs because at my last visit to Long John Silver's I got a map to pirate treasure."

- Obama

Tangle

First, where/when could a civilian unleash a .308 round in our typical society? There's just no tellin' where the bullet could wind up. It could easily go through both sides of a car, through both sides of another car, and after that go through all walls of a house and come out lethal on the other side of the house. In what situation would we need that kind of power, penetration, and range?

So, the first issue is why do we need a rifle for SD? How are we gonna claim SD if we're shooting 100-200 yards off? Why would we need to do that?

Then the shotgun: a shot gun is low capacity, very loud, lots of recoil, range limited, and heavy. The shells themselves have to be carried separately and loaded individually, and the typical scenario is to carry both slugs and 00 to address range issues. But again, where does the shotgun fit into home defense scenarios? Just shooting a shotgun indoors with no ear protection, will definitely impair your hearing for a long time. Then there's the bright muzzle flash and there goes night vision.

The .223: not bad, but they require a second type of ammo and mags and they are loud, esp. if you shoot indoors - it will impair your hearing for a long time. Then there's the muzzle flash - a ball of fire that will take away your night vision.

The PCC: much improved accuracy over a handgun. Electronic sights can be used on a carbine with practically no increase in bulk. That also enhances speed and accuracy. You can easily do head shots at 50 yards.

They have significantly lower muzzle flash and blast. Several pistol rounds have suppressed muzzle flash powders which all but eliminate problems with night vision. The 9mm round has just about the ideal balance of penetration. It penetrates almost any barrier material better than a .223, but is far short of the penetration power of a .308.

The PCC has a longer barrel than the handgun and may give a little boost to the bullet. E.g. the velocity of a 9mm may approach the velocity of some .357 sigs and .357 mags. Short of the energy of the .357 mag because of bullet weight.

PCCs use the same magazines and ammo as the pistol. So if the carbine or pistol becomes damaged or unoperational for what ever reason, all that ammo can be used in other weapon - same ammo, same mags. Some PCCs, e.g. the Beretta Storm, is shorter than ARs and shotguns and ligher as well making them very manueverable in tighter places.

Pistol ammo is very compact, so lot's of it can be carried in pistol mags.

What's not to like?

__________________
"Plans fail, things fail, people fail; but, fear never fails - it must be defeated." - by Tangle, a long time ago.

Tangle

I honestly believe it's a step in the right direction.

Exactly! What's not to like!

YEEESSS! It's good to see somebody besides myself is seeing it that way.

The point about cost of ammo for practice and stockpiling is excellent! You do shoot 9mm don't you? For the exact same reason you mentioned?

__________________
"Plans fail, things fail, people fail; but, fear never fails - it must be defeated." - by Tangle, a long time ago.

QKShooter

OK - maybe you guys are starting to change my thinking on pistol caliber carbines.
Perhaps I could actually even spring for one in .45 some day.

For me...a 9mm PCC would BE adding another caliber since I presently have/shoot nothing in 9.
So (for that reason) I would probably not buy one chambered for 9.

SIXTO

Marlin camp 45 would be ideal; it uses 1911 mags. They are getting scarce though.

__________________
In a land of sheep, even a toothless wolf is king.

"We don't have to worry about the cost of my federal programs because at my last visit to Long John Silver's I got a map to pirate treasure."

- Obama

Miggy

If it is any help, I'll give you my rationale.
When I decided to get a long gun and after some hands-on shooting, I fell in love with the Beretta CX4. The idea of not having to get different ammo and a low recoill rifle was indeed appealing. At the end was a question of cost. The three contenders were the CX4, an M4 and an AKlon.

Like I said before, I love the CX4 but the price of the AK was more appealing since I did not have too much of a budget ($600 for the CX4 v. $300 for the WASR). The AR died at the gate for the same reason. Then it was the mag capacity and the reliability of aftermarket hi-caps for the CX4 when it came out. AK mags were a dime a dozen, reliable & almost undestructible. Ammo was cheap back then (my first 1K was around $80) and it is a hard-hitting caliber which suits me fine for my enviroment (urban-suburban)
I hope this shed some light.

My next long gun, would be a small lever action in 357 since now I have 2 revos in that caliber. It would be designated as the Mrs. Miggy gun.

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SIXTO

I understand and even agree with your line of thinking, Miggy. However, I've figured out that the savings in cost of ammo will pay for the carbine in short order, plus keep my stock counts higher in both pistol and rifle ammo.

__________________
In a land of sheep, even a toothless wolf is king.

"We don't have to worry about the cost of my federal programs because at my last visit to Long John Silver's I got a map to pirate treasure."

- Obama

rocky

I figure if I have time to get my carbine , it is a really bad day. I want the extra reach, penetration and low recoil of my 5.56mm AR over a pistol caliber. I have considered them often, but cannot justify buying one.
Also, for me ,lots of time is spend outdoors , where longer shots could be required.

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Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

Link to my kydex builds:http://rocknloadkydex.blogspot.com/

SIXTO

I guess it really depends on your surroundings too. I live in suburbia, with not a whole lot of open land in my immediate surroundings.

__________________
In a land of sheep, even a toothless wolf is king.

"We don't have to worry about the cost of my federal programs because at my last visit to Long John Silver's I got a map to pirate treasure."

- Obama