jeep45238

It's no AR or AK, but it sure is neat. It oozes of ugliness and simplicity.

The thing is an ugly dukling, is 1/2 the cost of a cheap plinking AR, and can be had in 9mm Para and .40 S&W configurations. It can be had to accept Glock, H&K, Sig, S&W, or Beretta mags. This particular one is chambered in 9x19, and is designed to take Glock 17 mags. It can also be had to accept Glock 19 mags for the 9mm.

Well, the Glock 19 model is almost impossible to find, and I'm not going to pay somebody with a used G19 model $50 over retail for it shipped. The G17 model can be found, albeit rarely, but it can be found for $290-$320 plus shipping. This one cost me $351 when it was all said and done including taxes. As a forewarning, they do state pretty clearly in the manual to avoid aluminum cased ammo. As a nifty little thing, they also have an energy vs. trajectory vs. range chart as well, and with 115 grain +p it approaches .357 mag power levels at close quarters. Not bad, and you can buy 2000 rounds of 9mm for about $300 - sounds like a better social tool deal than an AR to me being a college student.

This morning I went ahead and chopped the grip to accept glock 19 mags. Anybody who is wanting to do this - look at the screw lowest in the grip - you have to trim up to that point to fit a G19 mag. The sights are a bit crude, but more than acceptable for it's intended mission. It really will be a nice BUB gun or trunk/glove box gun, and can fit inside of a briefcase easily. The one major warning - when shooting, don't shoot for precision by holding the stock into your shoulder. The bolt handle will get your hand pretty good. It also does not have a last shot bolt hold open - you can manually lock the bolt back by pulling the handle back and moving it slightly to the side. You can still find, on occasion, the predecessor to this gun, the Sub9, which is mostly aircraft grade aluminum, about 2-3 times more expensive when new, but does have the last shot bolt hold open. The gun weighs about 4 pounds or so, and has an ok trigger on it. All in all, I don't think you can get much better for $350ish and a semi auto carbine.


folded

unfolded

simple blowback design+operating/bolt handle

the parts - told you it was simple!

the parts as they go into the gun

shorter forearms are available, as well as a scope mount that allows folding with the scope still attached.

barrel profile, front sight

after the chop with the included 10 round G17 mag

chopped with a G17 vs. G19 mag

chopped with the G19 mag, slightly flared mag well

the G19 and the folding carbine - that takes the same mags as the pistol

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http://www.a-human-right.com/
"Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."

cdwolf

MP5 it's not, but not a bad little trunk gun!! How well does it shoot!

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jeep45238

I'll let you know in about 2 weeks.

When spring finally comes (there's a good 6" of snow on the ground right now - and it's March), I'm not expecting anything more than minute-of-man at 100 yards. 25 yards and in - should be pretty good.

__________________
~Mike F.
http://www.ConcealedCampus.com
http://www.a-human-right.com/
"Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."

nikdfish

Jeep,

I've had this Beretta grip Sub-2000 for a while now, but wanted to add a red-dot (never got comfortable with the original sights). Since the Subbie is a folder, I wanted something that would be removable for folding, but would retain zero between uses.

The folding scope mount Keltec offers wasn't an option as it only accomodates 1" scope tubes & the spacing is all wrong for a red-dot. I had seen a posting from someone who said they had used a Weaver Converta-mount intended for a Mossberg 500 on theirs & decided to try that route myself ... anyway, this is my implementation of the Mossberg 500 version Weaver Converta-mount on my Sub-2000.





I used stainless hardware for the attachment. 8/32 allen head screws and nylon insert lock nuts with washers.



I considered a few ways to handle dealing with the compound slope of the forestock (life would be too easy if it was straight & square). I even played around with using aluminium tape to build up a shim for the difference. I ended up falling back to a more simple approach. I used thin washers between the base plate and forestock on three of the four mounting screws (one on top rear & lower front, and two on the top front). The result is completely firm.




I think the alignment looks pretty good. I'll have to wait until some better weather permits a range trip for zeroing to see how well it really works...



It still folds fine with the scope rail dismounted.




followup: finally got out to the range to try things out. Zeroed without much trouble (Yay!) and holds the zero between dismounts & remounts.
These pics are a before & after dismout/remount of the scope rail with attached red-dot ....




Nick

jeep45238

Nick - nifty looking setup there.

__________________
~Mike F.
http://www.ConcealedCampus.com
http://www.a-human-right.com/
"Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."

jeep45238

__________________
~Mike F.
http://www.ConcealedCampus.com
http://www.a-human-right.com/
"Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."

Southtexas

I have mine in glock mag set up as well, it shoots well but at 100 yards the sights are not exactly sweet, If there was a way to mount optics on it ^^^^^^ (see above) that would allow a decent scope I would spend the money on it. Keep in mind its set up for 9mm, (0r .40 cal) so has range limitations to start with. A 16" barrel gets you the best ballistics you can reasonably get from a 9mm cartridge, so there is a lot more going for it in terms of a trunk gun, simply because it extends not only the ability to actually hit your target out further but because it also increases the actual ballistic performance of the rounds. That being said it is not a rifle, I got cheap and went with the plr 16 to do my longer range stuff, from a bench it is capable, but unfortunately I am not capable of getting good groups with the plr 16 at 50 yards offhand, so if given the choice between the two I choose the sub2k.

MikeGoob

is a .40 less desireable than a 9mm for this gun? I keep hearing how the 9mm is rare?

jeep45238

.40 is more of a punch - but I think it comes down to cost of shooting in the end.

Although I would LOVE to see a .45 ACP version, hint hint KelTec.

__________________
~Mike F.
http://www.ConcealedCampus.com
http://www.a-human-right.com/
"Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."

edr9x23super

+1 on the .45ACP version, but i would still consider buying one of the 9mm models just for kicks or an occasional IDPA carbine match or two.....

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"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry