Shotguns For Home Defense? - Page 5

ExSoldier · June 7th, 2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanis

So if you tell me you are an ex-Army, trained to sweep houses with an M-4, I can understand why some type of AR-15 is your choice, A police officer who carries a Glock on duty who chooses the same firearm at home, etc. But for your average Joe and Jane living in an apartment, the handgun vs shotgun conversation really does not require a caveat for semi-auto high capacity rifles and carbines.

LOL I had to respond to this one. Anybody trained in the military who says they're going to sweep their home with an M4... Didn't learn a thing if they plan on doing it alone. The only way this works safely, is to lob in a cooked off grenade, first. Otherwise, the only way to clear a room is to do so in teams. Reason being (think about this) no matter which way you enter any room, you are exposing your back to 50% of the room initially. I won't be doing it alone. Any fool dumb enough to invade my home is going to be facing two 120+ pound fur covered razor blades before they fall into my sight picture.

Thanis · June 7th, 2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExSoldier

LOL I had to respond to this one. Anybody trained in the military who says they're going to sweep their home with an M4... Didn't learn a thing if they plan on doing it alone. The only way this works safely, is to lob in a cooked off grenade, first. Otherwise, the only way to clear a room is to do so in teams. Reason being (think about this) no matter which way you enter any room, you are exposing your back to 50% of the room initially. I won't be doing it alone. Any fool dumb enough to invade my home is going to be facing two 120+ pound fur covered razor blades before they fall into my sight picture.

There you go. I have no training with M4s (etc), so to my main point, in the shotgun vs handgun conversation a caveat to include semi-auto high-capacity carbine or rifle is not essential.

Blackeagle · June 7th, 2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanis

There you go. I have no training with M4s (etc), so to my main point, in the shotgun vs handgun conversation a caveat to include semi-auto high-capacity carbine or rifle is not essential.

Simply because you don't have any training with a carbine doesn't mean that it's not a good choice for those who are either already trained or willing to train.

SIGP250 · June 7th, 2009, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SatCong

In close, shotgun only way.No4 or 00 buck is better then a 223. Do you have neighbors close, shotgun is bad enough, rifle is lot worse.Don't want to shoot your neighbors, could upset them.That's what we use to board JUNKS in Nam, 12ga stop the weed-monkeys fast.

If you can see them then yes a shotgun might be best it has the stopping power.

however, I would not rely on a shotgun sitting in the corner of my bedroom any more than a baseball bat if an intruder was at my bedside.

What use for for defence is not what I carry.

If I am half asleep I want a full size service pistol with 15 round capacity. The SA DXM might be good for some but I favor Sig's. I have a P50 with two different slides, 9mm and .40 S&W. I prefer the 9mm with ball nose at close range. I know some will say HP is better but It has been proven that ball nose at short range can actually be more be very effective if you can target at least 2 in the chest and at least one in the head.

Thanis · June 8th, 2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanis

There you go. I have no training with M4s (etc), so to my main point, in the shotgun vs handgun conversation a caveat to include semi-auto high-capacity carbine or rifle is not essential.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackeagle

Simply because you don't have any training with a carbine doesn't mean that it's not a good choice for those who are either already trained or willing to train.

My point is that it is not essential to add a caveat to include semi-auto high-capacity carbine into the shotgun vs handgun conversation. Shotgun / handgun does the trick and other options don't add much for a city / suburb HD SD situation. Training is the more important variable.

Now as for say an AR-15 being good to use if you have the training, I was only stating I have no knowledge, as I have no training / practice with those type of firearms for a HD situation (like sweeping a house). However ExSoldier commented:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExSoldier

LOL I had to respond to this one. Anybody trained in the military who says they're going to sweep their home with an M4... Didn't learn a thing if they plan on doing it alone. The only way this works safely, is to lob in a cooked off grenade, first. Otherwise, the only way to clear a room is to do so in teams. Reason being (think about this) no matter which way you enter any room, you are exposing your back to 50% of the room initially. I won't be doing it alone. Any fool dumb enough to invade my home is going to be facing two 120+ pound fur covered razor blades before they fall into my sight picture.

Again, I have no expertise regarding the matter, even to the point of having even an opinion (I am leaning toward what ExSoldier, as he has had training / practice).

My experience is with handguns and shotguns. If I were to give an opinion. I like a shotgun for defending a door (bedroom / front) or down a hall way. However, as far a sweeping, I believe a handgun is the way to go (along the lines of what SIGP250 stated).

Blackeagle · June 8th, 2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanis

My point is that it is not essential to add a caveat to include semi-auto high-capacity carbine into the shotgun vs handgun conversation. Shotgun / handgun does the trick and other options don't add much for a city / suburb HD SD situation. Training is the more important variable.

Training is the most important variable, but I think the carbine does offer some significant advantages over the shotgun. One of them is that I think it's easier to train someone to shoot a carbine well than a shotgun, particularly those of smaller stature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanis

Again, I have no expertise regarding the matter, even to the point of having even an opinion (I am leaning toward what ExSoldier, as he has had training / practice).

I think he was making a point about clearing a building by yourself generally, rather than about doing so with an AR specifically.

Thanis · June 8th, 2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackeagle

...I think he was making a point about clearing a building by yourself generally, rather than about doing so with an AR specifically.

Ahh...

bobcat35 · June 8th, 2009, 11:28 PM

when im home on leave i have all three "old standby's" on hand. my AR set up very similar to my duty M4, a 12 Ga Saiga set up similar to the AR for ease of transition, and my M1911. pistol by the bed and long guns secured nearby. as far as clearing rooms never try it with less than 2 well trained people and always move slowly and carefuly.

SIGP250 · June 9th, 2009, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcat35

when im home on leave i have all three "old standby's" on hand. my AR set up very similar to my duty M4, a 12 Ga Saiga set up similar to the AR for ease of transition, and my M1911. pistol by the bed and long guns secured nearby. as far as clearing rooms never try it with less than 2 well trained people and always move slowly and carefuly.

I'm not much of an authority on any long guns, short barreled rifles or shotguns. I do continually train with my pistols. A local shooting range had an auction of good used pistols and revolver's.

I bought a 1911 Kimber and and another .22 it was a Taurus 94 Revolver 9 shot with a 5" barrel. I just intend to have fun with this.

The Kimber to me is a "much have" but my instinct said, by another SIG. I don't have the old standby P220, yet.

I also favor newer Walther's. I swapped a SA DX with a laser for a Walther PPS with no regrets.

I shoot the PPS subcompact one handed most of the time. It does not have night sights but they are available.

At night, I carry a big Mag-light LED. It is so powerful, you can see a BG from a block away.

I sell lasers but don't use them myself anymore.

bmcgilvray · June 9th, 2009, 10:43 AM

"...as far as clearing rooms never try it with less than 2 well trained people and always move slowly and carefully."
__________________

No matter which self defense firearm I pick up for a perceived intrusion, I know myself and will be investigating. My problem is that I have no special training and will only be resorting to "being careful." Anyone out there in forumland know of any thoughtfully written treatises on clearing techniques?

Also, what are the best books out there on the fighting shotgun?

June 8th, 2009, 11:28 PM	#48
bobcat35 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 655	when im home on leave i have all three "old standby's" on hand. my AR set up very similar to my duty M4, a 12 Ga Saiga set up similar to the AR for ease of transition, and my M1911. pistol by the bed and long guns secured nearby. as far as clearing rooms never try it with less than 2 well trained people and always move slowly and carefuly. __________________ "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result." -Winston Churchill Every well-bred petty crook knows: the small concealable weapons always go to the far left of the place setting. -Inara, firefly

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June 9th, 2009, 10:43 AM	#50
bmcgilvray Distinguished Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,735	"...as far as clearing rooms never try it with less than 2 well trained people and always move slowly and carefully." __________________ No matter which self defense firearm I pick up for a perceived intrusion, I know myself and will be investigating. My problem is that I have no special training and will only be resorting to "being careful." Anyone out there in forumland know of any thoughtfully written treatises on clearing techniques? Also, what are the best books out there on the fighting shotgun?