Thanis

+1

The battle / assault rifles are not as good as a 12 gauge shotgun for most urban SD situations.

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bsnow

Scattergun is best home insurance for my money, against the BG'S. Handguns too.

zacii

So, I'm wondering how effective a shotgun could be in a hostage situation; buckshot up close? Slugs with only a bead sight? Just wondering

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Superduper Snubbie Thread

Why 1911?

Blackeagle

The slug is nowhere close to a .45. .410 slugs only weigh in at about 90 grains.

ExSoldier

Remember, the acoustics on a range are going to be far different than inside a residence. There's more sound deadening material in the home. Sound doesn't travel so far and it's not as magnified as you'll find on a range. I have fired my 45 ACP and a 9mm and a 22LR indoors at various times over the last 20 years and I mean INSIDE my home! I have done so with zero ear protection.

Well, actually the 45 was inside my father in laws place up in north Florida, 'bout 15 years ago. There was a monster honking rattler that slipped inside, rural acreage and home. You know. Everybody was screaming and I slipped upstairs and got my 1911. It was loaded with GLASER BLUE and that was perfect. The noise was but a loud POP! It startled them but nobody went into shock or anything. Nobody had ringing ears either. Not even me. Blew the head off that rattler, too! The old man went all over the air park hanging onto it by the rattles and bragging on that shot.

The other two times were in my home here in Miami. Really old place built in 1935. Lots of holes for critters to slip inside. As we found them we closed them. But a possum snuck in twice. Both times, the dog alerted us and I responded because she never "went off" unless there was a real problem (the sole exception was the only time we had a verified break in and I had to go hand to hand with a BG -- but that was the only slip with the dog)

Anyway, booth the other times I had POSSUM troubles. Down here them critters carry rabies and I wasn't taking any chances with my family. First time I used a Browning Hi-power because that was what I had in my hand and the critter was pretty big, hiding behind the kitchen garbage pail right up against a solid poured concrete wall. 9mm Glasers again saved the day from a dangerous bounced shot. Splattered that guy all over the wall. One shot, one kill. LOUD but not so much the neighbors called it in. The old house was well insulated and solid enough to survive every hurricane since 1935 without losing so much as a roof tile, including the biggies for this area: Hurricane Andrew. It helped that we'd been remodeling and had been using nail guns for a few weeks. Actually, the worst part was the, uh, MESS.

Can you believe this?

My wife lets "mighty hunter" hubby take the shot and then she makes ME clean it up!!! Of all da NOIVE!

So when it happened again a few weeks later, I remembered and this time, I used a Ruger MK III .22LR with a BULL BARREL that COULD HAVE neatly fit into the mouth of an empty 2 liter soda bottle. A little work for the front sight to slot into and some 100mph tape (duct tape to civilians) and I had WOULD HAVE HAD a much quieter solution, IF I was of a mind to break federal law and of course I wasn't. Not then not ever. So I used a 22 with subsonic ammo which was still mighty quiet. Less to clean up, too. Like I said, I was learning. The point is that firing a full sized firearm inside a residence is less loud than firing it on the range or inside a vehicle because of the noise dampening material used in building homes.

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Janq

Average spread on shot is roughly an inch for every foot beyond the first five as measured from the barrel.
This varies though depending on choke type if any, the mass of the shot including it being birdshot or buck , and the wad/cup design too.

Reference the chart below for a visual explanation of spread in relation to various factors...


Taking a precision shot with a shotgun as using shot would not, and is not, all that difficult when doing so at engagement ranges as measured in feet less than roughly twenty on the outside.
Turkey hunters have been proving this so for decades, all the while using relatively short barrels too.

As to whether using a bead or even no sight at all this does not matter much if you are using a single barrel or over and under gun (firing from the top barrel). Reason being is that unlike with a rifle which is aimed you point a shotgun and use it's barrel as a focal plane to 'sight' your target. Look, point, pull. Repeat as necessary.
If the gun is a side by side though well then you got a problem unless you well know the guns pattern and have selected the correct barrel to fire.
As well your scenario depends on how much exposure the BG shows you of himself.

Don't take my word for this though. That would be unwise.
Go grab your shotgun and hit the range. Bring 8" (adult sized COM) and 4" (adult sized face) paper plates along as targets and start close moving the target backward for distance to see how your own gun patterns at X, Y, and Z CQC ranges using A, B, and C ammunition. Memorize this so as to eliminate any future OMG can I make the shot guesswork.
Same as anyone would, or should, do with a rifle or handgun as related to aimed sighting and/or holdover with any given ammunition.

BTW for HD improved cylinder or cylinder is the barrel type/choke that is preferable as considering the functional ranges that and average home is in maximum wall to wall area as can be actually seen by you the shooter, not as measured on a blue print.

- Janq

P.S. - Oh and use quality high brass shot shells for sake of continuity in training shot to shot and as related to mental and muscle memory toward real world potential struggle and skills usage.

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"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
Monday, March 12, 2007 -- Op Ed -- The Washington Post

Bart

Got the Sunday paper and saw the Mossberg 500 Security Persuader for sale again at Big-5. Been wanting one for some time and could no longer control myself, so I bought one. I feel much better now.

Pikachu711

I recall a few years ago watching a Youtube video of Richard Kuklinski who was a mob hit man. In one video he mentioned going out one Xmas eve to collect a gambling debt. Mr. Kuklinski mentioned having to shoot this man while the "victim" sat in the driver seat while Mr. Kuklinski sat next to him.

When he did shot him twice he mentioned that the sound was VERY LOUD and he heard his ears ringing for HOURS after shooting him. In an enclosed space in a car what else do you expect???

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Blackeagle

Also pay attention to where the wad hits. It may be plastic but at close range it can do a number on someone too.

Janq

Excellent point BE, and I forgot to mention that.

Yes the wad at very close range is as much a projectile with soft tissue and muscle penetrating energy as the pellets.
Gotta pay attention to that as well when patterning for this specific application.


http://nfstc.org/projects/firearms/m...m05_t06_09.png

- Janq

__________________
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
Monday, March 12, 2007 -- Op Ed -- The Washington Post