Shotguns For Home Defense?

bmcgilvray · June 4th, 2009, 07:40 PM

Conventional wisdom recommends a shotgun, frequently set up with short riot-length barrel and other tactical goodies, as the ultimate "go-to" gun for household self defense. I've long thought so too and have kept a short-barreled shotgun handy.

I'm no longer so certain for the following reasons.

-Repeating shotguns have long, bulky receivers. Only break open designs do not but they will feature no more than two shots.

-Ammunition is bulky.

-Only a notion, but I question whether shotgun shells are as reliable, shot-for-shot, through various feed mechanisms as metallic cartridges can be.

-Jams can be a bear to clear.

-Loading and operating most pump or auto loading shotgun mechanisms is slightly more awkward in my opinion than operating most rifles.

-Lower ammunition capacity; which makes it an odd recommendation from those who must have 20 rounds on tap in their handgun (ammo capacity doesn't concern me).

-Reloading is slower

-Aim must be just as precise as with any other arm at household distances.

-Recoil is more disturbing for some than many other arms.

-May be (but not always) heavy and ill-balanced but If light and feathery then recoil is even heavier.

One really important feature of the shotgun is that it may be used with ammunition that won't penetrate every object between here and the county line.

Lots of trick gadgets are out there that folks enjoy buying to dress up their self defense shotguns but I don't see anything on the market that truly mitigates the above listed issues.

The shotgun, in either 12 gauge or 20 gauge guise and with proper ammunition, is undoubtedly effective against human assailants. Even so, it isn't a sure bet as has been demonstrated in many LEO stories through the years.

Lots of firearms forums jockeys like to recommend the shotgun for their womenfolk, many of whom aren't into shooting. This seems a huge mistake.

The lever action carbines chambered for center fire revolver rounds to .30-30 type cartridges, basic uncluttered AR 15s, M1 Carbines, Mini-14s, or the carbines accepting auto-pistol cartridges and magazines look like effective, practical choices for home defense.

Like many things in life it's a trade-out

What are your personal views on the shotgun for home defense?

Blackeagle · June 4th, 2009, 07:54 PM

I've long been of the opinion that a good semi-auto .223 rifle is a better choice than a shotgun for home defense. An AR type rifle gives you more ammo and quicker reloads (in the unlikely event a reload is necessary), in a shorter, lighter, handier package. Follow up shots are much quicker, and the gun is easier for smaller statured people to shoot. Loaded with a good frangible round (such as the Hornady TAP) the danger of excess penetration is probably about on a par with buckshot. The shotgun loaded with 00 buck probably wins on sheer terminal effect per shot, but the .223 rifle still packs a pretty potent punch.

This isn't to say a shotgun is a poor home defense weapon, but I think the AR is a better choice.

SatCong · June 4th, 2009, 08:46 PM

In close, shotgun only way.No4 or 00 buck is better then a 223. Do you have neighbors close, shotgun is bad enough, rifle is lot worse.Don't want to shoot your neighbors, could upset them.That's what we use to board JUNKS in Nam, 12ga stop the weed-monkeys fast.

retsupt99 · June 4th, 2009, 08:49 PM

This works HD for me...

Stoeger Coach Gun Supreme in 12-Gauge

Blackeagle · June 4th, 2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SatCong

Do you have neighbors close, shotgun is bad enough, rifle is lot worse.

That's not true if you've got a .223 and the correct ammo.

SatCong · June 4th, 2009, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackeagle

That's not true if you've got a .223 and the correct ammo.

If you have correct ammo. I seen what 223 & shotgun does to humans, take shotgun evertime at close range with other people close by.

MitchellCT · June 4th, 2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmcgilvray

-Lower ammunition capacity; which makes it an odd recommendation from those who must have 20 rounds on tap in their handgun (ammo capacity doesn't concern me).

Each pull of the trigger with a 12ga 00 buck is the equal of 9 rounds of 9mm being let off at once.

Blackeagle · June 4th, 2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitchellCT

Each pull of the trigger with a 12ga 00 buck is the equal of 9 rounds of 9mm being let off at once.

12 gauge 00 buck is potent, but an individual pellet is nowhere near as potent as a 9mm. They are almost 9mm in diameter, but because they're spherical, they're much lighter (around 53 grains).

itschuck · June 4th, 2009, 10:25 PM

Lets see...Remington Hi-Speed Steel number 2's...140 steel pellets at 1550fps with a 3.8 mm diameter (.15 inches) at typical inside the home distance..say 20-25 feet.
Need I say more..

QKShooter · June 4th, 2009, 10:33 PM

"-Repeating shotguns have long, bulky receivers."

I'm not getting that?

" -Ammunition is bulky."

Usually when fine motor skills go out the window bigger is always better and easier to handle with gross motor skills.

"-Only a notion, but I question whether shotgun shells are as reliable, shot-for-shot, through various feed mechanisms as metallic cartridges can be."

They are every bit as reliable.

"-Jams can be a bear to clear."
Few and extremely far between with a high quality pump and good factory shotgun shells. My Ithaca Model 37 has never jammed, failed to feed or extract.

"-Loading and operating most pump or auto loading shotgun mechanisms is slightly more awkward in my opinion than operating most rifles."

"-Reloading is slower"
Just like everything else in life - practice makes perfect. It certainly is a bit slower than popping a fresh mag into a semi-auto but, is still decently fast with modest practice.

"-Aim must be just as precise as with any other arm at household distances."
That is true but, a good shotgun will point quite naturally right where you look.

"-Recoil is more disturbing for some than many other arms."

That is a true statement.

"-May be (but not always) heavy and ill-balanced but If light and feathery then recoil is even heavier."

Any lighter firearm will always have heavier felt recoil than the same firearm in a heavier version.
The vast majority of quality shotguns are not "ill balanced" and exactly the opposite is usually true. Shot-gunners demand good balance in shotguns.

"Lots of trick gadgets are out there that folks enjoy buying to dress up their self defense shotguns but I don't see anything on the market that truly mitigates the above listed issues."

Actually there are highly innovative stocks available that negate most felt recoil.
There are also recoil suppressors available (such as the Mercury filled ones) that will dampen felt recoil and also there are special polymer recoil absorbing pads that will greatly decrease any shoulder ouch.
Also semi-auto shotties are extremely reliable once you find a shotgun shell brand that functions perfectly in that firearm and their felt recoil is mostly eaten up cycling the action.

" Lots of firearms forums jockeys like to recommend the shotgun for their womenfolk, many of whom aren't into shooting. This seems a huge mistake."

Usually that IS a boo-boo and for men also who are not into shooting at all but, there are smaller gages available that are much easier to handle than a 12.

"The lever action carbines chambered for center fire revolver rounds to .30-30 type cartridges, basic uncluttered AR 15s, M1 Carbines, Mini-14s, or the carbines accepting auto-pistol cartridges and magazines look like effective, practical choices for home defense."

They are AS WELL as a good shotgun.

One of the great advantages of living in America is that we can all decide what we personally would like to use for home defense and buy and train with that.

" What are your personal views on the shotgun for home defense?"

Viable and incredibly effective if the shooter will do his/her part as with every other firearm.

June 4th, 2009, 07:40 PM	#1
bmcgilvray Distinguished Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,735	Shotguns For Home Defense? Conventional wisdom recommends a shotgun, frequently set up with short riot-length barrel and other tactical goodies, as the ultimate "go-to" gun for household self defense. I've long thought so too and have kept a short-barreled shotgun handy. I'm no longer so certain for the following reasons. -Repeating shotguns have long, bulky receivers. Only break open designs do not but they will feature no more than two shots. -Ammunition is bulky. -Only a notion, but I question whether shotgun shells are as reliable, shot-for-shot, through various feed mechanisms as metallic cartridges can be. -Jams can be a bear to clear. -Loading and operating most pump or auto loading shotgun mechanisms is slightly more awkward in my opinion than operating most rifles. -Lower ammunition capacity; which makes it an odd recommendation from those who must have 20 rounds on tap in their handgun (ammo capacity doesn't concern me). -Reloading is slower -Aim must be just as precise as with any other arm at household distances. -Recoil is more disturbing for some than many other arms. -May be (but not always) heavy and ill-balanced but If light and feathery then recoil is even heavier. One really important feature of the shotgun is that it may be used with ammunition that won't penetrate every object between here and the county line. Lots of trick gadgets are out there that folks enjoy buying to dress up their self defense shotguns but I don't see anything on the market that truly mitigates the above listed issues. The shotgun, in either 12 gauge or 20 gauge guise and with proper ammunition, is undoubtedly effective against human assailants. Even so, it isn't a sure bet as has been demonstrated in many LEO stories through the years. Lots of firearms forums jockeys like to recommend the shotgun for their womenfolk, many of whom aren't into shooting. This seems a huge mistake. The lever action carbines chambered for center fire revolver rounds to .30-30 type cartridges, basic uncluttered AR 15s, M1 Carbines, Mini-14s, or the carbines accepting auto-pistol cartridges and magazines look like effective, practical choices for home defense. Like many things in life it's a trade-out What are your personal views on the shotgun for home defense?

June 4th, 2009, 08:46 PM	#3
SatCong Distinguished Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,603	In close, shotgun only way.No4 or 00 buck is better then a 223. Do you have neighbors close, shotgun is bad enough, rifle is lot worse.Don't want to shoot your neighbors, could upset them.That's what we use to board JUNKS in Nam, 12ga stop the weed-monkeys fast. __________________ NRA PATRON LIFE

June 4th, 2009, 08:49 PM	#4
retsupt99 VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 22,793	This works HD for me... Stoeger Coach Gun Supreme in 12-Gauge __________________ "That I cannot do." "Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks." *********************************** NRA Life Member

June 4th, 2009, 10:25 PM	#9
itschuck Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 343	Lets see...Remington Hi-Speed Steel number 2's...140 steel pellets at 1550fps with a 3.8 mm diameter (.15 inches) at typical inside the home distance..say 20-25 feet. Need I say more.. __________________ Current collection: NAA Guardian in 32naa, SIG P239 2-tone 40 with DAK, SW MP 40 Compact, Ruger SP101, Walther PP, SW 360 38+p Airweight, Browning Buckmark, SW Model 41

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June 4th, 2009, 07:54 PM	#2
Blackeagle Distinguished Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 1,997	I've long been of the opinion that a good semi-auto .223 rifle is a better choice than a shotgun for home defense. An AR type rifle gives you more ammo and quicker reloads (in the unlikely event a reload is necessary), in a shorter, lighter, handier package. Follow up shots are much quicker, and the gun is easier for smaller statured people to shoot. Loaded with a good frangible round (such as the Hornady TAP) the danger of excess penetration is probably about on a par with buckshot. The shotgun loaded with 00 buck probably wins on sheer terminal effect per shot, but the .223 rifle still packs a pretty potent punch. This isn't to say a shotgun is a poor home defense weapon, but I think the AR is a better choice.

June 4th, 2009, 10:33 PM	#10
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Off Of The X Posts: 23,493	"-Repeating shotguns have long, bulky receivers." I'm not getting that? " -Ammunition is bulky." Usually when fine motor skills go out the window bigger is always better and easier to handle with gross motor skills. "-Only a notion, but I question whether shotgun shells are as reliable, shot-for-shot, through various feed mechanisms as metallic cartridges can be." They are every bit as reliable. "-Jams can be a bear to clear." Few and extremely far between with a high quality pump and good factory shotgun shells. My Ithaca Model 37 has never jammed, failed to feed or extract. "-Loading and operating most pump or auto loading shotgun mechanisms is slightly more awkward in my opinion than operating most rifles." "-Reloading is slower" Just like everything else in life - practice makes perfect. It certainly is a bit slower than popping a fresh mag into a semi-auto but, is still decently fast with modest practice. "-Aim must be just as precise as with any other arm at household distances." That is true but, a good shotgun will point quite naturally right where you look. "-Recoil is more disturbing for some than many other arms." That is a true statement. "-May be (but not always) heavy and ill-balanced but If light and feathery then recoil is even heavier." Any lighter firearm will always have heavier felt recoil than the same firearm in a heavier version. The vast majority of quality shotguns are not "ill balanced" and exactly the opposite is usually true. Shot-gunners demand good balance in shotguns. "Lots of trick gadgets are out there that folks enjoy buying to dress up their self defense shotguns but I don't see anything on the market that truly mitigates the above listed issues." Actually there are highly innovative stocks available that negate most felt recoil. There are also recoil suppressors available (such as the Mercury filled ones) that will dampen felt recoil and also there are special polymer recoil absorbing pads that will greatly decrease any shoulder ouch. Also semi-auto shotties are extremely reliable once you find a shotgun shell brand that functions perfectly in that firearm and their felt recoil is mostly eaten up cycling the action. " Lots of firearms forums jockeys like to recommend the shotgun for their womenfolk, many of whom aren't into shooting. This seems a huge mistake." Usually that IS a boo-boo and for men also who are not into shooting at all but, there are smaller gages available that are much easier to handle than a 12. "The lever action carbines chambered for center fire revolver rounds to .30-30 type cartridges, basic uncluttered AR 15s, M1 Carbines, Mini-14s, or the carbines accepting auto-pistol cartridges and magazines look like effective, practical choices for home defense." They are AS WELL as a good shotgun. One of the great advantages of living in America is that we can all decide what we personally would like to use for home defense and buy and train with that. " What are your personal views on the shotgun for home defense?" Viable and incredibly effective if the shooter will do his/her part as with every other firearm.