S&W M&P-15 Exploded - Page 16

farmerbyron · October 8th, 2009, 02:46 PM

Wonder if we can change the title of this thread to "Remington ammo destroys Ar-15". Seems a little more accurate. Lots of Smith bashing has ensued throughout the internet and mine and every other one a personally know of has been a quality firearm.

Sig226GuyNJ · October 8th, 2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacii

So....is it safe now to get an M&P 15?

Yea man its good I think. I shot my new one for first time yesterday. Only 200 rounds but no hiccups.

Janq · October 8th, 2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacii

So....is it safe now to get an M&P 15?

It was not unsafe prior.

We've had here just two incidents total, and _BOTH_ have been ammunition related incidents as toward Remington.

As noted above a lot of S&W bashing going on that was and is unfounded.
Folk basing their views on completely different model firearms (i.e. decade ago Sigma model pistols) that have nothing at all to do with the AR15 platform nor this as manufactured model in specific.

Irrational hysteria....That _every_ mfr. including <fill in the name of any and every gun maker!> has suffered from and deals with.

- Janq

zacii · October 8th, 2009, 05:32 PM

I'm really wanting one of these...less than $1000 round here, minus the BUIS and quad rail. I was kind of skeptical because of this thread, but this problem could've happened to any AR, I think

stoprilshoot · October 9th, 2009, 08:31 AM

how can we be sure it was the ammo. we dont have any indication from remington they ever admitted it was nor do we have a clear explanation from S$W exactly how they claim the ammo caused the failure. seems to me if the ammo had a double charge or whatnot the OP would have noticed the big bang, ect...

also why is it that we dont have AR's from other manufactures exploding from remington ammo?

SubNine · October 9th, 2009, 09:14 AM

What else could it be then? Improper construction of the gun?

cuban11182 · October 9th, 2009, 11:48 AM

I thinkwe should wait and see what Lee says. Or someone can try and contact Remington and point them to this thread to see what they say.

Janq · October 9th, 2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoprilshoot

how can we be sure it was the ammo. we dont have any indication from remington they ever admitted it was nor do we have a clear explanation from S$W exactly how they claim the ammo caused the failure. seems to me if the ammo had a double charge or whatnot the OP would have noticed the big bang, ect...

also why is it that we dont have AR's from other manufactures exploding from remington ammo?

Only two instances of same have occurred, here.

Further it would not exclusively take an over charged round for this to occur.
An undercharged round would in fact better approximate the condition as reported by the OP.

Also that of a squib fire scenario as well, which is also due to undercharge, resulting in a barrel obstruction at some point along it's length with the follow on standard/normal charge going off and resulting in a chamber over pressure condition due to the barrel obstruction...which can and in guns past have been shot out by the follow on round.

Additionally as related to your question of sound ("bigbang"), if the shooter was wearing hearing protection as he should be at a range AND with that he was double eared as I and many other shooters will do (which is optimal) then it's very possible he would not notice at all a difference in sound pressure. The ears actively reduce and/or as with electronic ears (I run Peltor 6A with 29db reduction) been nearly completely obscured. I know when I'm shooting my own .223 as with commercial ammo the sound pressure to my own senses is very low as by norm.
Add to it that if he had not been firing single shot but instead repeat fire, not even fast but moderate, then again it would be likely he would not notice an overpowered nor underpowered shot charge as by sound pressure alone, nor even relative as felt recoil or movement of the action.

This happens to many shooters with many guns of all manner of manufacture, design and action type.
Almost always on the whole it comes back to and is the result of the ammunition. It's a thing that happens with guns and ammo, like how low octane gas will result in ping and damage with gas engines. Which is not a fault or design issue with the engine.

Lastly exact same instances have been reported toward other manufacturers.
Just not here, yet...

"my bushmaster just blew up in my face"

Source - sniper central forums

"Bushmaster carbon 15 exploded today!! "

Bushmaster carbon 15 exploded today!! - Calguns.net

" M4 blow up . **Updated with pics!!** detailed report added."

Quote:

FINDINGS:
Colt M4 carbine, SN XXXXXXX suffered a catastrophic failure due to one or multiple bore obstructions attributed to the previous use training ammunition. One or more projectiles were lodged in the bore of the weapon prior to the firing of standard ball ammunition.
The projectiles lodged in the bore of the barrel created an obstruction or obstructions which precipitated the subsequent failure of the structural integrity of the weapon receiver and bolt upon firing.
The damage suffered by the weapon is consistent with that normally associated with bore obstructions in conjunction with the firing of high-pressure rifle cartridges.

Source - http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=16&t=201974

"AR-15 Kaboom"

Source - AR- 15 KABOOM

There are more, many more.

Manufacturers do not normally warrant against damage never mind catastrophic failure of firearms as related to ammunition source errors and _induced_ malfunctions. Including commonly referred to "kaboom" events.
To expect as much from firearm manufacturers, any manufacturer,is simply unreasonable as they have no way to control what or how operators might feed, care for, or abuse the product upon time of post purchase possession. This applies to any and all types of firearm, not just S&W nor the AR15 in specific.

These things happen, on occasion.
It sucks for all involved; Owner/Operator, firearm manufacturer (who gets bad mouthed about their product, unfairly/erroneously), and that of the ammo manufacturer too.

As well this concept of ammunition induced malfunction and/or catastrophic failure is a basic component of firearms function knowledge.
It's taught in intro to firearms courses civilian and military as well.
Guns go kaboom is a thing that does at times occur, like flat tires on cars, considering these things are managing controlled explosions and forcing that redirected energy as into a small high pressure containment area at the chamber.

So if S&W ARs have the suck for just two instances by some folks analysis in this thread.
Then Bushmaster and Colt do as well, and so does every other firearm manufacturer out there as they all have had gun go kaboom instances. For that matter all guns are just a kaboom waiting to happen, so lets for public safety reasons demand a stop of manufacture and sale of any and all guns.
Or at least all of the ones made of thin and junk aluminum uppers and/or lowers...Such as specifically the M16/M4/AR15/AR10 type firearm.

But then to think as much would of course be unreasonable as taken against the _balance_ of all the firearms manufactured and running, the vast majority of which have not had such a problem.
Right?

- Janq

P.S. - It took me less than five minutes time, total, to locate the above instances of exact same result related to Colt & Bushmaster product kabooms. Again there are many others out there.
What has been interesting to me across now three threads here are that some folks have stated that all they have ever heard of are instances toward the S&W M&P15. All two of them.
But for some odd reason they have not heard of these many other instances as by other manufacturers (?). Either they are brand new to the AR game as in this year OR they are ignoring these instances as by other manufacturers which have been widely reported and detailed at pretty much every gunfu forum I've ever heard of.
But because of this thread alone and/or the other from prior, where Remington ammo was confirmed to have been the issue, people here have stated they choose to not purchase S&W product and will tell others same.
That makes no sense at all.

stoprilshoot · October 9th, 2009, 02:40 PM

Janq,

i agree with pretty much everything you said but it seems its all speculation @ this point.

the only thing i have been able to determine is that S$W dropped the ball on handling it and admitted so. not the first i have seen this from them.

cuban11182 · October 9th, 2009, 02:54 PM

WOW. I hope all the guys/girls were ok. That's crazy. We have a 50Cal explode overseas and hit one of the guys on the boat. They took out most of the scrapnel, but couldn't get it all out. Headspace and Timing was out.

October 8th, 2009, 02:46 PM	#151
farmerbyron Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 145	Wonder if we can change the title of this thread to "Remington ammo destroys Ar-15". Seems a little more accurate. Lots of Smith bashing has ensued throughout the internet and mine and every other one a personally know of has been a quality firearm. __________________ The Second Amendment ...... Because crime SHOULD be a hazardous occupation. If you want to piss off a conservative, lie to him. If you want to piss off a liberal, tell him the truth.

October 8th, 2009, 05:32 PM	#154
zacii Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: arizona Posts: 317	I'm really wanting one of these...less than $1000 round here, minus the BUIS and quad rail. I was kind of skeptical because of this thread, but this problem could've happened to any AR, I think __________________ Trust in God and keep your powder dry Superduper Snubbie Thread Why 1911?

October 9th, 2009, 09:14 AM	#156
SubNine Distinguished Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 1,642	What else could it be then? Improper construction of the gun? __________________ USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet. Check out blog reviews of the guns I own at, http://www.myspace.com/akgunnut

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October 9th, 2009, 08:31 AM	#155
stoprilshoot Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NC,USA Posts: 192	how can we be sure it was the ammo. we dont have any indication from remington they ever admitted it was nor do we have a clear explanation from S$W exactly how they claim the ammo caused the failure. seems to me if the ammo had a double charge or whatnot the OP would have noticed the big bang, ect... also why is it that we dont have AR's from other manufactures exploding from remington ammo?

October 9th, 2009, 11:48 AM	#157
cuban11182 Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 486	I thinkwe should wait and see what Lee says. Or someone can try and contact Remington and point them to this thread to see what they say.

October 9th, 2009, 02:40 PM	#159
stoprilshoot Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NC,USA Posts: 192	Janq, i agree with pretty much everything you said but it seems its all speculation @ this point. the only thing i have been able to determine is that S$W dropped the ball on handling it and admitted so. not the first i have seen this from them.

October 9th, 2009, 02:54 PM	#160
cuban11182 Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 486	WOW. I hope all the guys/girls were ok. That's crazy. We have a 50Cal explode overseas and hit one of the guys on the boat. They took out most of the scrapnel, but couldn't get it all out. Headspace and Timing was out.