Rexster

I strongly prefer the ergonomics of the Mini. I am a lefty, and the Mini's safety is ideal for lefties, and the operating rod is perfectly positioned for lefty manipulation. The Mini's stock dimensions fit me perfectly. I don't like to have to remember the offset factor for CQB, due to the AR15's high sight radius over the bore axis, when a Mini-14, my duty/HD shotguns, and duty/HD/CC handguns all have the line of sight right over the bore axis.

The safety position of the AR15 causes me a crisis of confidence, as I thoroughly indoctrinated myself to NOT "get caught with my dingus down" when shooting certain DA autopistols. Well, with the AR15, in semi-auto mode, the rifle IS ready to fire with the dingus DOWN. Dingus, for those too young to remember, refers to the safety lever. No amount of training can seem to totally give me faith, when my brain goes into primitive fight or flight mode. (Yes, I have been there with an AR15A2 Govt Carbine in my hands.)

Obviously, these two factors are individual to me, so your "mileage" may vary.

FWIW, I do like my half-Colt HBAR, for longer-range shooting, but NOT for close-range defensive use. So, I am not taking sides or beating any expired equines. If I had to go to war, and had to choose between a Mini or an AR, I would probably go AR, specifically an M16A2.

Random

What would be some examples of an "entry level AR"?

zacii

I thought the Sportical was an entry level AR. It is an AR, just without a dust cover or forward assist.

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Superduper Snubbie Thread

Why 1911?

Rayman

This is purely my own opinion. But when I think of an AR, all those little features that the sportical is missing, should be standard. It's like buying a car with no locks. The brass deflector, forward assist and dust cover should all be standard features on an AR.

Don't get me wrong, if you're looking for something to shoot holes in paper. Then by all means, if you can find a sportical that runs without multiple FTFs, go for it. From my own personal experience, I would not use the sportical for a serious rifle. Although a Mini 14 would not be my first choice, it'll do. Again this is purely my opinion. Heck some people trust their lives to a highpoint...I'm just not one of those people.

If we're sticking with DPMS. My local store has PANTHER RFA2-AP4A for $770.

Stag has their model 3 with no sights, model 1 with. RRA's has their standard A4. DTI (del-ton) is pretty much entry level across the board. All can be had for around $700-$800 range.

Random

Hmm - maybe a slightly different question, then: How would you define an entry-level AR?

Rayman

Hmm - how would you define vexatious?

gunthorp

I've read from other trainers that the mini isn't as reliable as the AR, M1-A1, FAL, G3, AK, and SKS in an extended exercise. I believe serious action competitors favor the 1911 and AR platforms. My DPMS customers have been very happy, so far. I have a DPMS LR308B, but it's more than I need for defensive use. I hate to deviate from your thread, but I've had more darn fun with the AK/SKS out to 100+ yds, and used the savings to get the 308, a bit more serious caliber than the 223.

IMO people just have to get over this whole accuracy thing in a defensive arm. Think running and running. It's different if you're hunting or going on the offensive, Mr Snipes.

Sorry to add any confusion. But don't worry, it won't be the last rifle in your safe.

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BAC

You realize that the AR doesn't need to be clean to run well, and that most ARs are more durable by far than Minis, right?

As for the original post, I'd get the AR. As others have said, the AR will hold resale value much better than the Mini, has a much stronger market following for parts and accessories, and is most likely going to be much more accurate. I'd personally get a different AR; DPMS has done little to endear themselves to a rather large number of people who spent a lot of money on their products but have not seen them over a year later, nor have had any calls or emails responded to. Until they start making a solid product and clean up their business practices, I cannot recommend DPMS.

Gunthorp, for a defensive firearm I am especially concerned about accuracy. There is no margin of error if a lawyer follows every miss and every miss might ruin someone else's life. If I'm using a firearm to defend myself, it'll be hard enough as it is to hit what I want with the adrenaline pumping with an accurate weapon.


-B

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gunthorp

DPMS fell way behind because they make one of the best. They wouldn't give out delivery dates, because they were so swamped and didn't want to over-promise. I'm sorry you and your friends are disappointed. Mine took a year, but it was well worth it. It stays inside an inch at 200 yards.

Concerning accuracy: In a DEFENSIVE use, at what range do you suppose you will engage? Take my DPMS, at 50 Yards it has 1/4" groups. Take any SKS, at 50 yards it has 1" groups or better. If 3/4" or less group size difference makes that big of a deal, carry on. I am simply more concerned with running reliability in a sustained exercise. If I want long range accuracy and effectiveness, I'll reach for my 338 bolt gun. It will reach out and turn cover into mere concealment, even better than my DPMS 308.

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BAC

Actually I was thinking of the couple family-member hostages taken during break-ins within the last few years (looking for links, but it's admittedly been a while). I understand and fully support the search for a durable, reliable firearm, but accuracy is not unimportant. Anything that helps me to successfully put that quarter-to-third-inch pill into a dangerous foe is as important to me as the weapon's proper function.


-B

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RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009. You will be missed.


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