Buying first SHTF rifle - AK or AR15? - Page 3

Chevy-SS · October 28th, 2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddy Warcrimes

Really should depend more on your definition of SHTF.

If SHTF means:
1)out in the woods away from civilization
2)no practical maintenance
3)you supply all the ammo
By all means get an AK as it performs better (than the AR) without maintenance

If it means:
1)an urban environment
2)engagements <200 yards
3)ammo resupply not a concern
either will do

If it means:
1)engagements >200 yards
2)penetration not a major concern
Go for the AR

If it means:
1)limited ammunition you can carry
2)extended duration of the event
3)functioning around other people
I'd get an AR due to ammo and parts availability in the U.S.

Personally, I have both, but my designated bug out rifle is the M-1 carbine (5 1/2 lbs FTW!).

Hey, I think this is a great reply (first two groups apply to me) and you had me all the way. But you completely lost me when you said "my designated bug out rifle is the M-1 carbine". Does this mean you would leave your AK and AR at home, and simply take the M-1? I just don't understand the reasoning. But I don't wanna sidetrack the thread either, lol.

thanks

Thijones · October 28th, 2009, 11:22 AM

For the first rifle, get an AK. You should be focusing on learning rifleman basics on a simple platform, not how much money you a burn on the next silly accesory for that fancy "tacti-cool."

10thmtn · October 28th, 2009, 12:47 PM

Unless you are anticipating hordes of attackers, I'll second the 12 g shotgun.

For a rifle/carbine, out to realistic range, a Mini 14. You get the availability of either 5.56 OR .223, and you get the reliability of a piston design.

I don't like to hang lots of tacticool doo-dads on my carbine, so the greater adaptability of the AR is not a factor to me. I like to keep my carbine light and fast. Same with my shotgun - other than extra shells on the buttstock (NOT on the receiver) - it is stock.

Cuda66 · October 28th, 2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10thmtn

Unless you are anticipating hordes of attackers, I'll second the 12 g shotgun.

For a rifle/carbine, out to realistic range, a Mini 14. You get the availability of either 5.56 OR .223, and you get the reliability of a piston design.
I don't like to hang lots of tacticool doo-dads on my carbine, so the greater adaptability of the AR is not a factor to me. I like to keep my carbine light and fast. Same with my shotgun - other than extra shells on the buttstock (NOT on the receiver) - it is stock.

You also get hard to find high cap mags of decent quality, and a rifle that--in my experience--is not particualrly accurate.

Just because one has an AR, it doesn't mean one must add doo-dads onto it...

Quote:

For the first rifle, get an AK. You should be focusing on learning rifleman basics on a simple platform, not how much money you a burn on the next silly accesory for that fancy "tacti-cool."

So get a baseline AR with iron sights; I'd find it frustrating to try and work on one's riflery skills with a rifle known for it's barely acceptible accuracy...

edr9x23super · October 28th, 2009, 04:48 PM

You can easily solve the AR's perceived reliability issue by installing a gas-piston top end like I have on hand.

It is chambered for 6.8SPC, so that solves the Ballistic problem too, and by the end of the year, I will have a .308 top end as well. I can swap top ends on any of my ARs in less than 10 minutes, so I am going with versatility and sticking with the AR platform.....

Oh yeah, and I forgot - There is absolutely no drop-off in accuracy that I can tell when I swap top ends whatsoever.... Both tops will shoot groups you can cover with a quarter at 100 yds with iron.....

GunnyBunny · October 28th, 2009, 04:55 PM

Keeping on topic and sticking to stock rifles (i.e. AR in .223 & AK in 7.62 Russian) I'd say it would depend on where I was in the world when I needed it.

We travel extensively and lets face it, the best rifle in the world is no good if you can't get ammo for it.

This side of the pond I'd stick with my AR for most of the reasons previously given. If I'm half way around the world somewhere the AK is King...........

My point is, when in Rome.............

Daddy Warcrimes · October 28th, 2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chevy-SS

...you completely lost me when you said "my designated bug out rifle is the M-1 carbine". Does this mean you would leave your AK and AR at home, and simply take the M-1? I just don't understand the reasoning. But I don't wanna sidetrack the thread either, lol.

This means if I can only take one, it will probably be the carbine.

If bugging out, that means I'm leaving the area by any means available. If that means walking, a 5 1/2 lb rifle will have an advantage over a 11 lb rifle (my AR). The ammo is lighter and not uncommon. If driving, they're all coming along.

Also an important feature, it's not as scary looking.

SilenceDoGood · October 28th, 2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerriLi

So perhaps instead of going AK or AR go back to basics and realize what role your SHTF weapon is designed to fill, and what you might need it to fill.

There are good ak's and terrible ak's just as there are good AR's and terrible AR's. If you are really concerned with SHTF, invest in a good 12ga. The ammo is cheap and diverse. With a second (longer) barrel you can tag targets out to 100+ yards (with slugs) no problem. You can kill birds, rabbits, squirrels, deer, 2 legged predators, the living dead, etc...

Reload and maintenance are simple. So is shooting it.

With that said, i voted AR because when SHTF i am retreating to my bunker by foot and I want a light weapon with lighter ammunition.

Squawker · October 29th, 2009, 12:31 AM

My answer was: Get both! I bought the AR first, wife gave me the AK last Christmas. I also have a Socom II in 308. I liked the accuracy of the AR, and the durability of the AK. I'm trying to stock ammo for both, but that's been on hold since I'm out of work. In a TEOWAWKI situation, the .223 ammo will be more available.

64zebra · October 29th, 2009, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddy Warcrimes

Also an important feature, it's not as scary looking.

unless you're a

then it doesn't matter

View Poll Results: For your very first SHTF gun - would you buy AK or AR15?
AK style	55	36.42%
AR15 style	96	63.58%
Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

October 28th, 2009, 11:22 AM	#22
Thijones Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Southwest Michigan Posts: 38	For the first rifle, get an AK. You should be focusing on learning rifleman basics on a simple platform, not how much money you a burn on the next silly accesory for that fancy "tacti-cool." __________________ Glock 23 SA-M7 Carbine Savage Model 11 .308 Mossberg 500A

October 28th, 2009, 12:47 PM	#23
10thmtn Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Posts: 666	Unless you are anticipating hordes of attackers, I'll second the 12 g shotgun. For a rifle/carbine, out to realistic range, a Mini 14. You get the availability of either 5.56 OR .223, and you get the reliability of a piston design. I don't like to hang lots of tacticool doo-dads on my carbine, so the greater adaptability of the AR is not a factor to me. I like to keep my carbine light and fast. Same with my shotgun - other than extra shells on the buttstock (NOT on the receiver) - it is stock. __________________ The People ARE the Militia, and have a DUTY (not just a right) to be both armed and proficient in the use of said arms. Ex-Army officer; Hurricane Andrew Relief, FL, 1992; Operation Restore Hope, Somalia, 1993 NRA Life Member; Range Safety Officer Glock 26, CT Laserguard, Smartcarry

October 28th, 2009, 04:48 PM	#25
edr9x23super Distinguished Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,737	You can easily solve the AR's perceived reliability issue by installing a gas-piston top end like I have on hand. It is chambered for 6.8SPC, so that solves the Ballistic problem too, and by the end of the year, I will have a .308 top end as well. I can swap top ends on any of my ARs in less than 10 minutes, so I am going with versatility and sticking with the AR platform..... Oh yeah, and I forgot - There is absolutely no drop-off in accuracy that I can tell when I swap top ends whatsoever.... Both tops will shoot groups you can cover with a quarter at 100 yds with iron..... __________________ "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

October 28th, 2009, 04:55 PM	#26
GunnyBunny VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Victoria, B.C. Posts: 2,130	Keeping on topic and sticking to stock rifles (i.e. AR in .223 & AK in 7.62 Russian) I'd say it would depend on where I was in the world when I needed it. We travel extensively and lets face it, the best rifle in the world is no good if you can't get ammo for it. This side of the pond I'd stick with my AR for most of the reasons previously given. If I'm half way around the world somewhere the AK is King........... My point is, when in Rome............. __________________ CCW permit holder for Utah, Pennsylvannia, Maine and New Hampshire. I can carry in your country but not my own. Last edited by GunnyBunny; October 28th, 2009 at 05:58 PM..

October 29th, 2009, 12:31 AM	#29
Squawker Distinguished Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 1,460	My answer was: Get both! I bought the AR first, wife gave me the AK last Christmas. I also have a Socom II in 308. I liked the accuracy of the AR, and the durability of the AK. I'm trying to stock ammo for both, but that's been on hold since I'm out of work. In a TEOWAWKI situation, the .223 ammo will be more available.

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