Shotgun for Home Defense - Page 3

Rigrat · October 31st, 2009, 09:53 PM

The Maverick is the way I am thinking of going. They have a trigger guard mounted safety simular to the Remington so a pistol grip stock is very doable.

TX-JB · October 31st, 2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biomortis

Ahhh, I didn't know they had a security model of the Maverick. I will check that out. That's cheap enough to get one for home and one for my store.

The Academy's by me sell both the field and security models for $169. They just sell so fast, a lot of times they don't have the security model in stock.

EvilMonk · November 1st, 2009, 03:11 AM

Why do people insist on using 00 Buck or slugs for home defense?

I guess you must live in the "Boonies" way out in the middle of nowhere, or have no one who lives with you...

In a more urban environment (or if you have more than one room occupied at any given moment!) you should use nothing bigger than 7 or 8 Lead (not Steel) Target Shot. ANYTHING BIGGER RUNS SIGNIFICANT RISK OF OVER-PENETRATION AND INJURY/DEATH/LAWSUIT!!!

Try it sometime. Seriously, go out to an outdoor range or friend's farm and shoot your "Home Defense" ammo at a "wall" made of drywall, pressboard, or Celotex.

I guarantee you will have over-penetration and post-target travel.

Got kids? Got neighbors? Got a conscience?

Reconsider the "Big 'n' Bada$$" methodology, please...

Look at tests of smaller shot vs. larger shot against various substances (gelatin, meat, clothes, etc.), and you will see that you do not lessen your defensive capabilities, only your collateral damage chances.

Lead will bounce or even more likely flatten when striking a hard surface like a wall, while steel will have a significantly higher chance of going through it.

Large shot will carry more inertia through an object, while a smaller shot will not.

Please consider those around you and stop thinking with your "Hollywood Muscle"!

Hotbrass · November 1st, 2009, 03:36 PM

I have 00buckshot in my 870 for home defense.

Just a read.

The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1

Birdshot as a Defense Load
I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?

We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.

A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.

Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job.

But doesn't 00 Buck penetrate too much in interior walls to be a "safe" load in a home?
Yes, it does penetrate a lot. But any load that is going to be effective will need to penetrate walls to have enough power to penetrate bad guys. If our only concern was to be sure we didn't penetrate walls, we would use BB guns. However, BB guns will not stop bad guys.

Therefore, we must use loads that will STOP bad guys, and this means that they will also penetrate walls. So, be sure you hit the bad guy and do not shoot into walls where loved ones are on the other side.

When To Use Birdshot
A friend of AR15.com sends this:

"I saw a gunshot victim, about 5' 10" and 200 lbs, taken to the operating room with a shotgun wound to the chest. He was shot at a range of six feet at a distance of just over the pectoralis muscle. He was sitting on his front porch and walked to the ambulance. We explored the chest after x-rays were taken. The ER doc had said 'buckshot' wound, but this was obviously not accurate.

It was # 6 shot. There was a crater in the skin over an inch in diameter. When the shot hit the level of the ribs, it spread out about five inches. There was ONE pellet that had passed between the ribs and entered the pericardium, but not damaged the heart at all. As you say, 'use birdshot for little birds.'"

FHBrumb · November 1st, 2009, 04:47 PM

There's nothing wrong with the 500 for what you intend to use it for. I have a Benelli Nova Tactical, and at times, I wish I had gone with the Mossberg. For one, I'd like a different stock. That's not possible with the Nova, but simple as pie for the 500...

wjh2657 · November 1st, 2009, 05:15 PM

Below is my main HD weapon. It is a Mossberg 500A (12 ga) rescued from our 2008 tornado. Originally with a bent barrel and pretty beat up, a little touch up paint on receiver was the only real work I did on it other than completely disassemble and clean it. It now sports a new 18 1/2" barrel with a meprolight Trijicon night bead and a Hogue Overmold stock with LimbEaze recoil pad attached.

OLDPUPPYMAX · November 1st, 2009, 05:59 PM

I've chosen a Benelli Super Nova tactical, 18.5" 5 shot 12 gauge and 2 3/4 "#1 shot. It will provide a slightly larger pattern at short range, yet still do the job. Only slightly smaller than 00.

Katana · November 1st, 2009, 08:51 PM

I can't speak for Remington or Benelli, I've never owned either. My experience with shotguns is limited to only the Winchester model 1300 defender and the mossberg 590. I chose mossberg due to the fact that that's what the military chose. They were the first to pass the military torture test and that's good enough for me.

I have complete confidence in my mossberg, Ive only put about 500 shells through it (all federal, either vitashock 00 or #8 birdshot) but it's not failed me yet. I ran about 300 rounds through it before I even bothered to clean it, just to test it out. Ran flawless.

The biggest thing to remember is that any of the name brands out there are going to be excellent choices (Remington, Benelli, Mossberg, Winchester, etc..) and that it's going to be hard to go wrong with any of them. You've just got to decide which one is worth your money and do they meet the criteria you've set for them.

Good luck choosing, but you're going to end up with a winner almost anyway you chose.

chaco · November 1st, 2009, 09:19 PM

I have a Mossberg 12 gauge for HD. It was a toss up for me, but because of the safety location on the Mossy (I'm left handed) is what sold me on the Mossy. It is a good gun for my needs.

Brady · November 2nd, 2009, 05:53 PM

Don't overlook the fun of scrounging and building your own.

gunbroker.com

Home Defense Shotgun on a Budget

November 1st, 2009, 03:11 AM	#23
EvilMonk Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N. Kentucky Area Posts: 275	Why do people insist on using 00 Buck or slugs for home defense? I guess you must live in the "Boonies" way out in the middle of nowhere, or have no one who lives with you... In a more urban environment (or if you have more than one room occupied at any given moment!) you should use nothing bigger than 7 or 8 Lead (not Steel) Target Shot. ANYTHING BIGGER RUNS SIGNIFICANT RISK OF OVER-PENETRATION AND INJURY/DEATH/LAWSUIT!!! Try it sometime. Seriously, go out to an outdoor range or friend's farm and shoot your "Home Defense" ammo at a "wall" made of drywall, pressboard, or Celotex. I guarantee you will have over-penetration and post-target travel. Got kids? Got neighbors? Got a conscience? Reconsider the "Big 'n' Bada$$" methodology, please... Look at tests of smaller shot vs. larger shot against various substances (gelatin, meat, clothes, etc.), and you will see that you do not lessen your defensive capabilities, only your collateral damage chances. Lead will bounce or even more likely flatten when striking a hard surface like a wall, while steel will have a significantly higher chance of going through it. Large shot will carry more inertia through an object, while a smaller shot will not. Please consider those around you and stop thinking with your "Hollywood Muscle"! __________________ That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding... Convenire Volui Spectatus

November 1st, 2009, 03:36 PM	#24
Hotbrass Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Far Far away Posts: 365	I have 00buckshot in my 870 for home defense. Just a read. The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1 Birdshot as a Defense Load I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load? We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds. A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this. In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs. Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job. But doesn't 00 Buck penetrate too much in interior walls to be a "safe" load in a home? Yes, it does penetrate a lot. But any load that is going to be effective will need to penetrate walls to have enough power to penetrate bad guys. If our only concern was to be sure we didn't penetrate walls, we would use BB guns. However, BB guns will not stop bad guys. Therefore, we must use loads that will STOP bad guys, and this means that they will also penetrate walls. So, be sure you hit the bad guy and do not shoot into walls where loved ones are on the other side. When To Use Birdshot A friend of AR15.com sends this: "I saw a gunshot victim, about 5' 10" and 200 lbs, taken to the operating room with a shotgun wound to the chest. He was shot at a range of six feet at a distance of just over the pectoralis muscle. He was sitting on his front porch and walked to the ambulance. We explored the chest after x-rays were taken. The ER doc had said 'buckshot' wound, but this was obviously not accurate. It was # 6 shot. There was a crater in the skin over an inch in diameter. When the shot hit the level of the ribs, it spread out about five inches. There was ONE pellet that had passed between the ribs and entered the pericardium, but not damaged the heart at all. As you say, 'use birdshot for little birds.'" __________________ Keep your powder dry

November 1st, 2009, 04:47 PM	#25
FHBrumb Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: USA, where else? Posts: 337	There's nothing wrong with the 500 for what you intend to use it for. I have a Benelli Nova Tactical, and at times, I wish I had gone with the Mossberg. For one, I'd like a different stock. That's not possible with the Nova, but simple as pie for the 500... __________________ Amendment XIV Section 1. ...No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...

November 1st, 2009, 05:15 PM	#26
wjh2657 Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Lafayette, Tennessee Posts: 544	Below is my main HD weapon. It is a Mossberg 500A (12 ga) rescued from our 2008 tornado. Originally with a bent barrel and pretty beat up, a little touch up paint on receiver was the only real work I did on it other than completely disassemble and clean it. It now sports a new 18 1/2" barrel with a meprolight Trijicon night bead and a Hogue Overmold stock with LimbEaze recoil pad attached. __________________ " A man has got to know his limitations!" Inspector Harry Callihan, SFPD

November 1st, 2009, 08:51 PM	#28
Katana Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Clarksville,TN Posts: 487	I can't speak for Remington or Benelli, I've never owned either. My experience with shotguns is limited to only the Winchester model 1300 defender and the mossberg 590. I chose mossberg due to the fact that that's what the military chose. They were the first to pass the military torture test and that's good enough for me. I have complete confidence in my mossberg, Ive only put about 500 shells through it (all federal, either vitashock 00 or #8 birdshot) but it's not failed me yet. I ran about 300 rounds through it before I even bothered to clean it, just to test it out. Ran flawless. The biggest thing to remember is that any of the name brands out there are going to be excellent choices (Remington, Benelli, Mossberg, Winchester, etc..) and that it's going to be hard to go wrong with any of them. You've just got to decide which one is worth your money and do they meet the criteria you've set for them. Good luck choosing, but you're going to end up with a winner almost anyway you chose. __________________ "Stand your ground, don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here!" - John Parker April 19th, 1775 Lexington, MA

October 31st, 2009, 09:53 PM	#21
Rigrat Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: South Posts: 199	The Maverick is the way I am thinking of going. They have a trigger guard mounted safety simular to the Remington so a pistol grip stock is very doable.

November 1st, 2009, 05:59 PM	#27
OLDPUPPYMAX Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 73	I've chosen a Benelli Super Nova tactical, 18.5" 5 shot 12 gauge and 2 3/4 "#1 shot. It will provide a slightly larger pattern at short range, yet still do the job. Only slightly smaller than 00.

November 1st, 2009, 09:19 PM	#29
chaco Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lost but making good time Posts: 25	I have a Mossberg 12 gauge for HD. It was a toss up for me, but because of the safety location on the Mossy (I'm left handed) is what sold me on the Mossy. It is a good gun for my needs.

November 2nd, 2009, 05:53 PM	#30
Brady Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 114	build your own Don't overlook the fun of scrounging and building your own. gunbroker.com Home Defense Shotgun on a Budget __________________ ...he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 USN; NRA; GOA - http://gunowners.org; GRGR-SC - http://www.scfirearms.org

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