Originally Posted by Hotbrass

I have 00buckshot in my 870 for home defense.

Just a read.

The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1

Birdshot as a Defense Load
I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?

We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.

A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.

Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job.

But doesn't 00 Buck penetrate too much in interior walls to be a "safe" load in a home?
Yes, it does penetrate a lot. But any load that is going to be effective will need to penetrate walls to have enough power to penetrate bad guys. If our only concern was to be sure we didn't penetrate walls, we would use BB guns. However, BB guns will not stop bad guys.

Therefore, we must use loads that will STOP bad guys, and this means that they will also penetrate walls. So, be sure you hit the bad guy and do not shoot into walls where loved ones are on the other side.

When To Use Birdshot
A friend of AR15.com sends this:

"I saw a gunshot victim, about 5' 10" and 200 lbs, taken to the operating room with a shotgun wound to the chest. He was shot at a range of six feet at a distance of just over the pectoralis muscle. He was sitting on his front porch and walked to the ambulance. We explored the chest after x-rays were taken. The ER doc had said 'buckshot' wound, but this was obviously not accurate.

It was # 6 shot. There was a crater in the skin over an inch in diameter. When the shot hit the level of the ribs, it spread out about five inches. There was ONE pellet that had passed between the ribs and entered the pericardium, but not damaged the heart at all. As you say, 'use birdshot for little birds.'"

Originally Posted by EvilMonk

Why do people insist on using 00 Buck or slugs for home defense?

I guess you must live in the "Boonies" way out in the middle of nowhere, or have no one who lives with you...

In a more urban environment (or if you have more than one room occupied at any given moment!) you should use nothing bigger than 7 or 8 Lead (not Steel) Target Shot. ANYTHING BIGGER RUNS SIGNIFICANT RISK OF OVER-PENETRATION AND INJURY/DEATH/LAWSUIT!!!

Try it sometime. Seriously, go out to an outdoor range or friend's farm and shoot your "Home Defense" ammo at a "wall" made of drywall, pressboard, or Celotex.

I guarantee you will have over-penetration and post-target travel.

Got kids? Got neighbors? Got a conscience?

Reconsider the "Big 'n' Bada$$" methodology, please...

Look at tests of smaller shot vs. larger shot against various substances (gelatin, meat, clothes, etc.), and you will see that you do not lessen your defensive capabilities, only your collateral damage chances.

Lead will bounce or even more likely flatten when striking a hard surface like a wall, while steel will have a significantly higher chance of going through it.

Large shot will carry more inertia through an object, while a smaller shot will not.

Please consider those around you and stop thinking with your "Hollywood Muscle"!

Originally Posted by Rigrat

The Maverick is the way I am thinking of going. They have a trigger guard mounted safety simular to the Remington so a pistol grip stock is very doable.

Originally Posted by Guns and more

Don't overlook a pump in .410. In my opinion, the perfect H/D firearm.

Maybe even in a pistol grip, since you aren't hunting or sporting.

Think 5 pellets, the size of a .38, traveling at 1100 ft/sec. Ouch, ouch!

(and so little recoil, your wife might feel safe using it!)

Originally Posted by Sportsterguy

I'll take my chances with lead OO buck versus 8 shot shot that will bounce off a heavy leather coat at 10 yards. I have a much better chance of hitting and taking out a home invader with a shotgun than missing multiple times with my Springer .45 or H&K in 9mm in the dark of night. Lots of folks have them 2 rounds and use handguns for home protection and they penetrate much more than the slower moving OO buckshot.

I would not use slugs as they do overpenetrate. Have eaten quite a few deer over the years thanks to them.


JMO