Accuracy after cleaning?

SixBravo · August 28th, 2006, 02:38 AM

The two threads about cleaning your firearm got me wondering about whether I am the only person who goes through this:

I had noticed that my H&K does not shoot as well when it first gets opened-up at the range. After about a full mag, it gets back to its good-old nail-driving accuracy. Then, other times it would be great right out of the holster.

I then realised that it would be, initially, far less accurate if I had just cleaned my gun. For some reason, the gun seems to shoot much better when its got some dirtiness in it. I don't know if this is a design implication or what. If it is, that's very odd. But anyhow, now after I clean the gun, I go put 100 rounds through it before I carry it. Could this be a devilish conspiracy between H&K and ranges all over the country?!?!?! lol j/k

Does anyone else go through this or am I just retarted?

Ben Hennessy · August 28th, 2006, 07:20 AM

I have not notice any better accurancy between my gun being dirty or clean. But my guns feed a whole lot better when they are clean.

ELCruisr · August 28th, 2006, 08:06 AM

I don't have the link here at work but Scheumann has an article on his barrel website about cleaning guns. His tests have lead him to reccomend NEVER cleaning one of his barrels, only the chamber. He feels something to the effect that the micro scratching leads to accelerated wear and that by never cleaning them they are more accurate! Sure flies in the face of everything I was taught as a youngster but this guy sure makes a good barrel!

RSSZ · August 28th, 2006, 08:52 AM

I't hard to believe that any of the gun "guru's" would EVER say not to clean every part of a firearm or any other piece of machinery.

Cleaned properly,using the proper equipment,how could it hurt.

Benchrest shooters always consider a "fouling shot". These are the guys(and guns) that shoot the .154" to .200" group with their .308's. Pistols and revo's aren't that picky. Even my hunting weapons shoot to the same POI on the first shot or the 10th. Now my 14" T/C in .223 will change a little.

As a general rule,the bigger the bore,the less the weapon will be effected by cleanleness.

For me,I can not,NOT,clean my weapons after every range or hunting session. ---------

ELCruisr · August 28th, 2006, 10:53 AM

I found it!

http://www.schuemann.com/

Go to the article on barrel cleaning. Interesting read!

P95Carry · August 28th, 2006, 11:07 AM

At combat distances I have not been aware of any significant accuracy changes with a clean gun. I do tho admit to not cleaning the bore in great detail - it is given what many might regard as a cursory clean.

That I might add is with normal jackets - if I put a bunch of lead thru then I do clean the bore to ensure de-leading.

I do remember way back when I used to shoot my 686 at 25 yards for bullseye - there was a slight tendency for the group to be more open with a clean gun, but it was probably marginal.

Ghost Who Walks · August 28th, 2006, 12:05 PM

This isn't unusual. It's been reported for many years that a very clean or well-oiled barrel will shoot off. I don't clean my pistol barrels with any sort of abrasion process - No wire brushes.

I use a Hoppe's Tynex (Nylon) brush with a cotton flannel patch wrapped around it along with IOSSO bore paste. Flitz polish will work, too, but not as well.

All of my oil cleaning and preserving is done with Ballistol.

If you don't clean the barrel, at all, sooner or later it will start to pit. (Which is good for a barrel manufacturer, but bad for you!)

http://www.ballistol.com/

http://www.iosso.com/

SixBravo · August 28th, 2006, 01:03 PM

Yeah I don't use wire brushes. I won't go into why because I'm sure that will spark a debate. hahaha But I do use a needle-head style bore attachment with a well-soaked cotton swap. I just use #9 on the barrel - I don't lube the inside of it. Just clean it. Would that be the problem?

That IS a damned interested read on the Schuemann barrels, though. Makes me wonder....

gregarat · August 30th, 2006, 07:45 AM

IMHO if you protect the crown of the muzzle, and use a good cleaning rod, like Dewey or Bore Tech. Cleaning will only help your firearms accuracy.

Quote:

Yeah I don't use wire brushes. I won't go into why because I'm sure that will spark a debate. hahaha

I dont dissagree that over use of brass brushes will ,cause more fouling. I personaly use nylon brushes to do most of the work. Although if I shoot alot of rounds, I will use a brass brush (and Fitz)conservatively. I will only put a brass brush through my bore after I get clean paches with nylon, and patch. I then use "foaming" cleaner, or Sweets to clear out the inbeded brass and deep fouling. Thats when Im anal about clining rifles that I wan to keep M.O.A., unfoutionatly I have onle one one of thoughs rifles now.

Quote:

But I do use a needle-head style bore attachment with a well-soaked cotton swap.

Thats proper "old school" cleaning teqnique

I agree, that #9 is the most safe cleaner out there. #9 and Butch's barrel cleaner, does the vast majority of my cleaning.

Quote:

Benchrest shooters always consider a "fouling shot". These are the guys(and guns) that shoot the .154" to .200" group with their .308's. Pistols and revo's aren't that picky. Even my hunting weapons shoot to the same POI on the first shot or the 10th. Now my 14" T/C in .223 will change a little.

Thats so true. The number of "fouling shots" will differ for every individual barrel, and "Barrel Break-in Procedure".

If I were to get a good barrel I would buy from Hart.
Im just bias tuard Hart, cause they are a few miles from my families home

.

This kind of talk makes me realy miss shooting Woodcucks over 300y

rocky · August 30th, 2006, 10:19 AM

Before shooting on the range ,try a dry patch thru the bore first. however , I have not noticed any significant accuracy difference from first shoots to last.
I keep my gun and bore clean to insure rust free , reliable operating gun.

August 28th, 2006, 08:06 AM	#3
ELCruisr Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central FL Posts: 1,900	I don't have the link here at work but Scheumann has an article on his barrel website about cleaning guns. His tests have lead him to reccomend NEVER cleaning one of his barrels, only the chamber. He feels something to the effect that the micro scratching leads to accelerated wear and that by never cleaning them they are more accurate! Sure flies in the face of everything I was taught as a youngster but this guy sure makes a good barrel! __________________ If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

August 28th, 2006, 10:53 AM	#5
ELCruisr Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central FL Posts: 1,900	I found it! http://www.schuemann.com/ Go to the article on barrel cleaning. Interesting read! __________________ If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

August 28th, 2006, 11:07 AM	#6
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,407	At combat distances I have not been aware of any significant accuracy changes with a clean gun. I do tho admit to not cleaning the bore in great detail - it is given what many might regard as a cursory clean. That I might add is with normal jackets - if I put a bunch of lead thru then I do clean the bore to ensure de-leading. I do remember way back when I used to shoot my 686 at 25 yards for bullseye - there was a slight tendency for the group to be more open with a clean gun, but it was probably marginal. __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

August 28th, 2006, 12:05 PM	#7
Ghost Who Walks Ex Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 79	This isn't unusual. It's been reported for many years that a very clean or well-oiled barrel will shoot off. I don't clean my pistol barrels with any sort of abrasion process - No wire brushes. I use a Hoppe's Tynex (Nylon) brush with a cotton flannel patch wrapped around it along with IOSSO bore paste. Flitz polish will work, too, but not as well. All of my oil cleaning and preserving is done with Ballistol. If you don't clean the barrel, at all, sooner or later it will start to pit. (Which is good for a barrel manufacturer, but bad for you!) http://www.ballistol.com/ http://www.iosso.com/ Last edited by Ghost Who Walks; August 28th, 2006 at 12:15 PM..

August 30th, 2006, 10:19 AM	#10
rocky Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MI Posts: 12,060	Before shooting on the range ,try a dry patch thru the bore first. however , I have not noticed any significant accuracy difference from first shoots to last. I keep my gun and bore clean to insure rust free , reliable operating gun. __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson Nemo Me Impune Lacesset Link to my kydex builds:http://rocknloadkydex.blogspot.com/

August 28th, 2006, 07:20 AM	#2
Ben Hennessy VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. James, Missouri Posts: 2,361	I have not notice any better accurancy between my gun being dirty or clean. But my guns feed a whole lot better when they are clean.

August 28th, 2006, 08:52 AM	#4
RSSZ Distinguished Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,847	I't hard to believe that any of the gun "guru's" would EVER say not to clean every part of a firearm or any other piece of machinery. Cleaned properly,using the proper equipment,how could it hurt. Benchrest shooters always consider a "fouling shot". These are the guys(and guns) that shoot the .154" to .200" group with their .308's. Pistols and revo's aren't that picky. Even my hunting weapons shoot to the same POI on the first shot or the 10th. Now my 14" T/C in .223 will change a little. As a general rule,the bigger the bore,the less the weapon will be effected by cleanleness. For me,I can not,NOT,clean my weapons after every range or hunting session. ---------

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