Would Anyone Else Like One of These? - Page 2

Fragman · September 27th, 2006, 03:02 PM

That's all I need. Another 'must have' gun to buy!!

rodc13 · September 27th, 2006, 04:09 PM

Would be fun to have, but I don't see a lot of utility (for myself) for a carbine in a pistol caliber. I've got an Uzi (9mm) which is a ball to shoot, but if I wanted something more than a handgun for defense, I'd go for one of my ARs, either .223 or .308 (depending on the situation and terrain, of course).

I guess the argument could be made that the pistol-caliber carbine would have the virtues of being more intrinsically accurate than the handgun, with larger capacity, ability to mount optics, etc., without the excessive penetration of a rifle round.

And, you'd better believe, I have no argument at all with the desirability -- nay, the necessity ;-) -- of having as many guns as possible! Wherever your weapons priorities lie, you should follow your bliss.

craze · September 27th, 2006, 04:46 PM

I wouldn't mind a pistol caliber carbine but I have little interest in a .357 sig. I just don't see that it is in any way superior to the .40S&W.
The balistics chart from remington shows that the 155gr .40 is equal to the 125gr. .357sig.

155gr .40
MV 1205fps, at 50yards 1095fps
ME 499ft/lbs, at 50 yards 413ft/lbs

125gr .357sig
MV 1350fps, at 50yards 1157fps
ME 506ft/lbs, at 50yards 372ft/lbs

Same amount of energy at the muzzle and at 50 yards the .40 holds on to its energy better. Plus I reload and would rather skip the case lube step required with bottle necked cases.

MattLarson · September 27th, 2006, 05:05 PM

Just my $0.02, but if you are going to step up to something the size of a carbine, it makes sense to step up to a rifle cartridge and get the terminal effect of a carbine as well.

If I need something bigger than my 1911, I'll reach for the 5.56.

Matt

Superhouse 15 · September 27th, 2006, 11:08 PM

True, Rifles are rifles and carbines are carbines, and the power is not the same. Remember to use enough gun. I "work" at an indoor range and I have seen over and over that people who can barely hit a full-size shilouette target with a handgun can get good solid hits with a carbine. Most of the shooters I see are poor shots, mostly due to lack of real training. Their performance improves 100% with that extra stability and sight radius. We rent a Thompson, a Commando Arms .45, a 10-22, and a few Hi-Points. The quality of the carbine does not matter. It's just plain easier to shoot a long gun.

And if your handgun groups at 25 feet look like buckshot patterns at 25 yards. Get some help from an instructor. (And -pet peeve- dont take your girlfriend out so you can "teach her to shoot" if you can barely hit the backstop yourself)

hsuCowboy98 · September 28th, 2006, 10:35 AM

Personally, If I were to get something in a carbine size, Im going to have to step it up to a rifle caliber.

Fun they may be, the current prices of factory .357 sig loads would kill any plinking with such a carbine..

Once I get on with the DPS though, and I get that monthly ammo stipen, that may change.

ghost tracker · September 29th, 2006, 04:22 PM

I agree that "the spoils aren't worth the cost of the hunt" when it comes to creating a Beretta Storm in .357 Sig. True, it's a fine caliber (I've got a custom Browning Hi-Power in .357 Sig) and there would be very little developement to make it work...but why? The ammo is more expensive than the .40 S&W & there's no major performance advantage.
If you REALLY want a 10mm (or .357 Sig) carbine, do a quick "Google" search on the Impulse Carbine Conversions (GLOCK) from Austria or the Mech-Tech Carbine Converstions (GLOCK & 1911) from here in the U.S. I can tell you for certain that a full-power 10mm round (not the later FBI de-tuned version) from a +16" barrel gives major-league .41 magnum ballistics. And you BETTER have a BIG ammo budget or be a handloader because you'll run through the 15 rounds in a GLOCK G20 magazine as fast as your finger can twitch. It's a fun, flat-shooting thunderbolt of a pistol carbine that can bowl-over a coyote at 150 yards or drop a 400 lb. feral hog like a sledgehammer. My GLOCK/Mech-Tech 10mm is one pistol caliber carbine that the rifle shooters do NOT make fun of.

September 27th, 2006, 04:09 PM	#12
rodc13 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 2,409	Would be fun to have, but I don't see a lot of utility (for myself) for a carbine in a pistol caliber. I've got an Uzi (9mm) which is a ball to shoot, but if I wanted something more than a handgun for defense, I'd go for one of my ARs, either .223 or .308 (depending on the situation and terrain, of course). I guess the argument could be made that the pistol-caliber carbine would have the virtues of being more intrinsically accurate than the handgun, with larger capacity, ability to mount optics, etc., without the excessive penetration of a rifle round. And, you'd better believe, I have no argument at all with the desirability -- nay, the necessity ;-) -- of having as many guns as possible! Wherever your weapons priorities lie, you should follow your bliss. __________________ Cheers, Rod "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

September 27th, 2006, 05:05 PM	#14
MattLarson Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,510	Just my $0.02, but if you are going to step up to something the size of a carbine, it makes sense to step up to a rifle cartridge and get the terminal effect of a carbine as well. If I need something bigger than my 1911, I'll reach for the 5.56. Matt __________________ Hope is not a plan.

September 27th, 2006, 11:08 PM	#15
Superhouse 15 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 986	Carbines True, Rifles are rifles and carbines are carbines, and the power is not the same. Remember to use enough gun. I "work" at an indoor range and I have seen over and over that people who can barely hit a full-size shilouette target with a handgun can get good solid hits with a carbine. Most of the shooters I see are poor shots, mostly due to lack of real training. Their performance improves 100% with that extra stability and sight radius. We rent a Thompson, a Commando Arms .45, a 10-22, and a few Hi-Points. The quality of the carbine does not matter. It's just plain easier to shoot a long gun. And if your handgun groups at 25 feet look like buckshot patterns at 25 yards. Get some help from an instructor. (And -pet peeve- dont take your girlfriend out so you can "teach her to shoot" if you can barely hit the backstop yourself)

September 28th, 2006, 10:35 AM	#16
hsuCowboy98 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,023	Personally, If I were to get something in a carbine size, Im going to have to step it up to a rifle caliber. Fun they may be, the current prices of factory .357 sig loads would kill any plinking with such a carbine.. Once I get on with the DPS though, and I get that monthly ammo stipen, that may change. __________________ Fear No Evil.

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September 27th, 2006, 03:02 PM	#11
Fragman Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 535	That's all I need. Another 'must have' gun to buy!!

September 27th, 2006, 04:46 PM	#13
craze Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 341	I wouldn't mind a pistol caliber carbine but I have little interest in a .357 sig. I just don't see that it is in any way superior to the .40S&W. The balistics chart from remington shows that the 155gr .40 is equal to the 125gr. .357sig. 155gr .40 MV 1205fps, at 50yards 1095fps ME 499ft/lbs, at 50 yards 413ft/lbs 125gr .357sig MV 1350fps, at 50yards 1157fps ME 506ft/lbs, at 50yards 372ft/lbs Same amount of energy at the muzzle and at 50 yards the .40 holds on to its energy better. Plus I reload and would rather skip the case lube step required with bottle necked cases.

September 29th, 2006, 04:22 PM	#17
ghost tracker Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ky Backwoods Posts: 742	I agree that "the spoils aren't worth the cost of the hunt" when it comes to creating a Beretta Storm in .357 Sig. True, it's a fine caliber (I've got a custom Browning Hi-Power in .357 Sig) and there would be very little developement to make it work...but why? The ammo is more expensive than the .40 S&W & there's no major performance advantage. If you REALLY want a 10mm (or .357 Sig) carbine, do a quick "Google" search on the Impulse Carbine Conversions (GLOCK) from Austria or the Mech-Tech Carbine Converstions (GLOCK & 1911) from here in the U.S. I can tell you for certain that a full-power 10mm round (not the later FBI de-tuned version) from a +16" barrel gives major-league .41 magnum ballistics. And you BETTER have a BIG ammo budget or be a handloader because you'll run through the 15 rounds in a GLOCK G20 magazine as fast as your finger can twitch. It's a fun, flat-shooting thunderbolt of a pistol carbine that can bowl-over a coyote at 150 yards or drop a 400 lb. feral hog like a sledgehammer. My GLOCK/Mech-Tech 10mm is one pistol caliber carbine that the rifle shooters do NOT make fun of.