havegunjoe

The following is from the Wall Street Journal and I thought it was pretty good:

April 18, 2007
COMMENTARY
'Gun-Free Zones'
By DAVID B. KOPEL
DOW JONES REPRINTS
April 18, 2007; Page A17
The bucolic campus of Virginia Tech, in Blacksburg, Va., would seem to have little
in common with the Trolley Square shopping mall in Salt Lake City. Yet both share
an important characteristic, common to the site of almost every other notorious mass
murder in recent years: They are "gun-free zones."
Forty American states now have "shall issue" or similar laws, by which officials
issue a pistol carry permit upon request to any adult who passes a background check
and (in most states) a safety class. Research by Carlisle Moody of the College of William and Mary, and others,
suggests that these laws provide law-abiding citizens some protection against violent crime. But in many states
there are certain places, especially schools, set aside as off-limits for guns. In Virginia, universities aren't "gun free
zones" by statute, but college officials are allowed to impose anti-gun rules. The result is that mass murderers
know where they can commit their crimes.
Private property owners also have the right to prohibit lawful gun possession. And some shopping malls have
adopted anti-gun rules. Trolley Square was one, as announced by an unequivocal sign, "No weapons allowed on
Trolley Square property."
In February of this year a young man walked past the sign prohibiting him from carrying a gun on the premises
and began shooting people who moments earlier were leisurely shopping at Trolley Square. He killed five.
Fortunately, someone else -- off-duty Ogden, Utah, police officer Kenneth Hammond -- also did not comply with
the mall's rules. After hearing "popping" sounds, Mr. Hammond investigated and immediately opened fire on the
gunman. With his aggressive response, Mr. Hammond prevented other innocent bystanders from getting hurt. He
bought time for the local police to respond, while stopping the gunman from hunting down other victims.
At Virginia Tech's sprawling campus in southwestern Va., the local police arrived at the engineering building a
few minutes after the start of the murder spree, and after a few critical minutes, broke through the doors that Cho
Seung-Hui had apparently chained shut. From what we know now, Cho committed suicide when he realized he'd
soon be confronted by the police. But by then, 30 people had been murdered.
But let's take a step back in time. Last year the Virginia legislature defeated a bill that would have ended the "gunfree
zones" in Virginia's public universities. At the time, a Virginia Tech associate vice president praised the
General Assembly's action "because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."
In an August 2006 editorial for the Roanoke Times, he declared: "Guns don't belong in classrooms. They never
will. Virginia Tech has a very sound policy preventing same."
Actually, Virginia Tech's policy only made the killer safer, for it was only the law-abiding victims, and not the
criminal, who were prevented from having guns. Virginia Tech's policy bans all guns on campus (except for
police and the university's own security guards); even faculty members are prohibited from keeping guns in their
cars.
Virginia Tech thus went out of its way to prevent what happened at a Pearl, Miss., high school in 1997, where
assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieved a handgun from his car and apprehended a school shooter. Or what
happened at Appalachian Law School, in Grundy, Va., in 2002, when a mass murder was stopped by two students
with law-enforcement experience, one of whom retrieved his own gun from his vehicle. Or in Edinboro, Pa., a few
days after the Pearl event, when a school attack ended after a nearby merchant used a shotgun to force the attacker
to desist. Law-abiding citizens routinely defend themselves with firearms. Annually, Americans drive-off home
invaders a half-million times, according to a 1997 study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
In Utah, there is no "gun-free schools" exception to the licensed carry law. In K-12 schools and in universities,
teachers and other adults can and do legally carry concealed guns. In Utah, there has never been a Columbinestyle
attack on a school. Nor has there been any of the incidents predicted by self-defense opponents -- such as a
teacher drawing a gun on a disrespectful student, or a student stealing a teacher's gun.
Israel uses armed teachers as part of a successful program to deter terrorist attacks on schools. Buddhist teachers
in southern Thailand are following the Israeli example, because of Islamist terrorism.
After the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in the U.S., long-time gun control advocates, including Sen. Barbara Boxer (D.,
Calif.), agreed that making airplane cockpits into "gun-free zones" had made airplanes much more dangerous for
everyone except hijackers. Corrective legislation, supported by large bipartisan majorities in both houses of
Congress, allowed pilots to carry firearms, while imposing rigorous gun-safety training on pilots who want to
carry.
In many states, "gun-free schools" legislation was enacted hastily in the late 1980s or early 1990s due to concerns
about juvenile crime. Aimed at juvenile gangsters, the poorly written and overbroad statutes had the disastrous
consequence of rendering teachers unable to protect their students.
Reasonable advocates of gun control can still press for a wide variety of items on their agenda, while helping to
reform the "gun-free zones" that have become attractive havens for mass killers. If legislators or administrators
want to require extensive additional training for armed faculty and other adults, that's fine. Better that some
victims be armed than none at all.
The founder of the University of Virginia, Thomas Jefferson, understood the harms resulting from the type of
policy created at Virginia Tech. In his "Commonplace Book," Jefferson copied a passage from Cesare Beccaria,
the founder of criminology, which was as true on Monday as it always has been:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit
crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to
encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed
man."
Mr. Kopel is research director of the Independence Institute in Golden, Colo., and co-author of the law school

I especially liked, "But let's take a step back in time. Last year the Virginia legislature defeated a bill that would have ended the "gunfree zones" in Virginia's public universities. At the time, a Virginia Tech associate vice president praised the General Assembly's action "because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

In an August 2006 editorial for the Roanoke Times, he declared: "Guns don't belong in classrooms. They never will. Virginia Tech has a very sound policy preventing same." The VT associate vice president should be made to apologize to each victim’s relatives. This stupid defeat of the bill may have made people "feel safe" but it did nothing to actually make them safe. Also, since guns don't belong in classrooms, perhaps the police should have waited outside until the killer came out of the classroom so they didn't violate this idiot's sensitivities.

__________________
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONTESTING THE VOTE.

Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
Utah Permit Certified Instructor

4my son

OH HELL YEAH, I said it on another thread, it looks like the whole 2A debate may be coming to a head here sooner rather than later. With the DC debate going on, and the push for HR-1022.

People, we may be playing for all the marbles here soon, like it or not, it may be headed that way. This article and many others like it, are very encouraging to say the least, I had figured on maybe one, or two at the most bringing up these topics, but several major media outlets are actually looking at "our" side.

__________________
"fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand

P95Carry

Seems like today there are more and more articles coming out on this theme - it sure brings the whole thing to the forefront.

The ''feel safe'' mode has long been accepted by many - but some of those may even now be realizing it ain't that simple.

__________________
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."

If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

SubNine

Perhaps people including members of the media are finally realizing that these so called "gun free zones" will only make it easier for criminals to do their jobs. Feeling safe and actually being safe are two different things. Training courses are sometimes very expensive, and not very many people, especially college students can't afford to take those kinds of classes. I can honestly say that the only place I do "feel" safe is in my own home, where I have easy access to a phone, and my guns.

goawayfarm

The problem we will have with the media will be EXTREMELY difficult to overcome.

A lot are anti-gun, others are 'pro-disaster'. I'll give you an example of the latter.......

While watching the news coverage of VT's killings, I noticed a couple of themes. One of course, is the 'more gun control' agenda. This included asking 'why was it so easy for this man to get a gun?'

Another was more insidious...........The TV news reporters WITHOUT EXCEPTION, all asked: Why weren't there surveillance cameras in the places where the shootings happened?

Again I say that, ALL networks I saw asked this question at some point in their comments.

After you read it again, answer my question...What are their reasons for wanting cameras?

Here is one from my perspective. They want VIDEO TO BROADCAST on their news shows. They WANT PICTURES. (I bet they were lamenting the fact, that no video exists showing the shootings.) Now they are practically falling all over themselves now that Cho had sent them a package full of more info, with pics & video!

Look at it another way....If cameras had been there, WOULD IT HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE?.....NO, it wouldn't.

This was a mentally deranged individual. He would not have been stopped by cameras. The response time from police would not have been quicker. Cameras would have served no function other than to entertain the masses.after the fact.

Now we are seeing just how many warning signs were out BEFORE this happened.....ALL, sadly were ignored.

__________________
Quemadmoeum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.

"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

packinnova

Oh there's no argument there...Why else would they have posted pictures of bloodied students being carried out almost within minutes of the media arrival. They thrive on destruction and disaster. The media is like a bunch of vultures waiting for the next kill. Quite disturbing in it's own rite.

__________________
-The Mist (2007)

craze

The main stream news media (NBC in particular) started in on the gun angle before the bodies were even cold. It's my personal oppinion that many of our enemies are excited about this and view it as their big chance to turn the tide against 2A. The news media is also lovin it because it gives them lots of meat to fill their 24 hour news cycle. I heard a phrase about the news media from Michael Savage that applies "If it bleeds it leads, If it burns it earns". I'm tired of hearing about the glock 19 refered to as a "high powered weapon" and the 30 round "clips" that they don't have any evidence were even used.

As far as the government is concerned they would like you to "feel safe" but could care less if any particular individual is safe. "Fat dumb and happy" is how they like us.

__________________
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.
--George Washington

TN_Mike

That is a great article. Perhaps the tide is starting to turn in our favor in some small way.

Could it be that the sheeple are starting to understand that the cops can't protect you and that the only one who truly can is you yourself?

What will the politicians do if the sheeple realize that they do not need them for their well being?

__________________
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. —Barry Goldwater 1968

Tennessee Firearms Association

retsupt99

I think that the are only 'running for their lives'...a stampede actually...

Perhaps some will realize that 'gun safe zones' don't work...most won't.

I hate to see either Pro or Anti overreact right after a shooting like this...

Let things simmer down before we begin 'shouting' what has to be done...decisions under emotion seldom end up profitable to anyone...

OMO

Stay armed...stay safe!

ret

__________________
"That I cannot do."

"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."


***********************************

NRA Life Member

kansas_plainsman

I *never* met a liberal who couldn't ignore reality when it suited him. I expect nothing else in the weeks to come. The reasonable editorials will fade away, and the gun-grabbers will be all over the place by this time next week. Remember how the dust had to settle before 9/11 got twisted into something *we* did.

__________________
Clint
Kansas - The original Old West
Open Skies - Long Vistas