Blind guy gets handgun permit. - Page 6

cagueits · May 18th, 2007, 12:08 AM

I side with the group who thinks the blind man has the same rights as everyone else. If he kills/maims the wrong person, let him have his day in court just as we would.

ccw9mm · May 18th, 2007, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QKShooter

... we still do not send 4 year old American Citizen kids packing off to school armed with little handguns. Why is that?

Red herring. Big difference between an adult and a 4yr old child who's lacking the emotional maturity, experience and understanding to evaluate and manage the ramifications. A 4yr old isn't likely to understand when/where its use would be appropriate. A full adult certainly would, at least no less than you or I.

Shooting a firearm close-in threatens distant innocents no more than would any other defender's shots, from similar close-in (contact) distances.

If you doubt it, try a simple experiment with any $5 dart gun from the toy store. Close your eyes for a half hour or so, focusing your other senses intently on what you can no longer "see." Then, have a friend or family member walk around you to simulate a "BG" approaching. (Watch the eyes, as darts can injure them.) An "attack" wouldn't be silent in real life, so simulate with the BG being aggressive, noisy, rustling the clothing, shuffling the feet, even running ... just as in real life. Now, let 'er rip. Perform close-in firing of the dart gun with the BG within ~3-12 ft or so. It's not that difficult to focus in on a living, moving target, while "blind" at close range. And with a person who has actually been blind for some time, those heightened "other" senses are fairly strong. Don't take my word for it. Speak from experience: try it directly, then judge the difficulty.

From what I've seen on ranges and in person, I would trust the average intelligent blind person far more than some of the poor-shooting nuts at ranges who fail to strike a 3ft paper target at 20ft with both eyes open. Those poor sods are issued licenses readily, despite the obvious handicaps, which includes thinking they can shoot. The average intelligent blind person isn't that stupid.

As always, for gross recklessness not justified by the situation, everyone's on tap for the ramifications ... the blind as well.

Repeat after me: Inalienable right.

Baby Hulk · May 18th, 2007, 12:29 AM

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought that it was a joke.

Most of us will agree that when any of our senses are even slightly impaired that it can negatively affect our performace with our firearm which could have possible negative effects on those around us.

With that said, I wouldn't want to be around him when the SHTF.

SammyIamToday · May 18th, 2007, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Hulk

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought that it was a joke.

Most of us will agree that when any of our senses are even slightly impaired that it can negatively affect our performace with our firearm which could have possible negative effects on those around us.

With that said, I wouldn't want to be around him when the SHTF.

From the way he spoke, I'd rather be around him than any number of mall ninjas.

Rob99VMI04 · May 18th, 2007, 10:36 AM

So the RTKBA only applies to the people who can see?

A physical limitation such as site shouldn't be a factor from preventing you from having a gun in a shall isse state.

I know the technique that most of these guys are being taught. And frankly its very close to what will probably happen.

Grab onto the guy attacking you shove the gun in his gut and pull the trigger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by QKShooter

If this guy is totally blind then no way on Earth would I issue him a license to carry a deadly weapon.

In fact whoever issued him a LTC should be sued in court.

It sounds real cute and politically correct but it's an insane idea.

He would not be able to tell what other innocent people are in the immediate vicinity.

He would not be able to tell if there were a group of little kids standing right behind his attacker.

He would not be able to make a qualified "Shoot - No Shoot" determination.

He would not be qualified to make a ricochet determination.

He would not be able to tell if there was a tanker truck filled with Gasoline or Hydrogen rolling down the street.

Those are extreme examples but, I could think of 100 other examples where eyesight would be critical in a deadly threat self~defensive situation.

Yeah...Great! - Point Blank Range Only and the bullet completely sails through the perp and into a school bus window.

Let's say there was a mad dog running around attacking people and the dog started heading toward the blind guy - a passerby with only moments to react runs over and grabs the blind dude to quickly move him to safety...do you think the passerby - a Good Samaritan should catch a bullet in the heart (point blank) for his trouble?...I don't.
The blind person (with only seconds to react) would only know that he was being grabbed/accosted and would likely react by presenting his firearm and pulling the trigger in a panic situation.

There are way too many scenarios where eyesight is absolutely critical to the proper and responsible use of deadly force.

No Thanks and please do not be offended...Mr. Blind Guy - Nothing Personal but, Stick with a stun gun or anything else less than lethal.

If the guy is totally blind and wants to shoot supervised at the range then I'm 100% cool with that.
Out in public...I can't (in good conscience) bite on saying OK to it.

Rob99VMI04 · May 18th, 2007, 10:39 AM

Driving was not included in the bill of rights.

And I seem to remember that whole rights of the people thing ( First 10 amendments) didn't exclude blind people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rstickle

I should probably add a disclaimer to my posts in this thread. I'm not endorsing the decision to give a blind person a CC permit. I think QK said it...... He wouldn't get a drivers permit. The post were bringing up some random thoughts for discussion.

Sometimes this PC crap REALLY goes to far!

SIXTO · May 18th, 2007, 10:45 AM

I'm OK with it... more permits are issued to sighted people that have no business carrying a gun, why not this guy who is blind? He knows his limitations thats what is most important.
Blind or not, he is held to the same standards of liability as everyone else.

For the driving argument... you cannot safely operate a vehicle blind. You can defend yourself blind.

rfurtkamp · May 18th, 2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QKShooter

The 2nd amendment doesn't have any age restrictions in its "Shall Not Be Infringed" either but, we still do not send 4 year old American Citizen kids packing off to school armed with little handguns.

Why is that?

Parents make that choice.

From a constitutional perspective, I see no reason why the rights of children to purchase and possess firearms should be infringed in all honesty - prior to 1968, they could do so.

Why is the pre-1968 child so superior to today's?

Gun control, whether it is from people bent on committing crime, or children, or the blind, or the insane, doesn't prevent crime. It doesn't prevent horrible atrocities. Nothing does but vigilance, and all law enforcement is by its nature an after-the-fact affair.

We live in a society where allegedly there is an inalienable right to bear arms that shall not be infringed. If it isn't that any more, don't advertise it as such, and don't expect that your personal gun rights or collections will remain sancrosanct.

If the child uses a gun inappropriately, punish them and/or their parents. If an adult does, they face consequences.

The key is that they face consequences based on what they have done, not what they might do.

To an anti-gunner, any one of us is as dangerous as that blind man with a gun.

To give in to threats and fear of what might happen because an undesirable had a firearm makes us in effect no better than them.

I'm willing to take risks in a world where the blind and the infirm and the insane could occasionally do something horrific, because rights have a price - that price may be paid by me and mine, it may not be. The fact is that the potential cost for that freedom is worth it.

Sam Douthit · May 18th, 2007, 11:39 AM

I had a blind friend who rode a tandem bicycle with me. He was also an avid skier and followed a skier down a schlalom with a bell ringing. However, he would have went for a permit to carry in a heartbeat. I am not sure I agree with issuing a blind person a carry permit. My friend felt he was vulnerable to mugging but he was also a wrestler and wrestled sighted people successfully in college. We used to go to bars together and he always said to hand him any problem guys we had trouble with. He was 6' 3" and weighed over 240 and was as solid as a rock. If he got his hands on you it could be tough. However I would vote against his having a permit for a gun. He was a math and computer science major and could do calculus problems in his head.

Rob72 · May 18th, 2007, 11:45 AM

Anyone here carry a "belly gun"? Anyone practice drawing and shooting at <7yards? If so, you validate this man having a permit. He seems to be one, "aware of his limitations."

May 18th, 2007, 12:29 AM	#53
Baby Hulk Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,076	When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought that it was a joke. Most of us will agree that when any of our senses are even slightly impaired that it can negatively affect our performace with our firearm which could have possible negative effects on those around us. With that said, I wouldn't want to be around him when the SHTF. __________________ It's not about the caliber you carry, it's about how you USE it. Acts 4:12 (Mohammad Who?) 1988 DIE HARD 2008 NRA Member

May 18th, 2007, 10:45 AM	#57
SIXTO VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Here and There Posts: 10,431	I'm OK with it... more permits are issued to sighted people that have no business carrying a gun, why not this guy who is blind? He knows his limitations thats what is most important. Blind or not, he is held to the same standards of liability as everyone else. For the driving argument... you cannot safely operate a vehicle blind. You can defend yourself blind. __________________ In a land of sheep, even a toothless wolf is king. "We don't have to worry about the cost of my federal programs because at my last visit to Long John Silver's I got a map to pirate treasure." - Obama

May 18th, 2007, 11:39 AM	#59
Sam Douthit Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bowdon, GA Posts: 181	I had a blind friend who rode a tandem bicycle with me. He was also an avid skier and followed a skier down a schlalom with a bell ringing. However, he would have went for a permit to carry in a heartbeat. I am not sure I agree with issuing a blind person a carry permit. My friend felt he was vulnerable to mugging but he was also a wrestler and wrestled sighted people successfully in college. We used to go to bars together and he always said to hand him any problem guys we had trouble with. He was 6' 3" and weighed over 240 and was as solid as a rock. If he got his hands on you it could be tough. However I would vote against his having a permit for a gun. He was a math and computer science major and could do calculus problems in his head. __________________ Sambo74 SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM

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May 18th, 2007, 12:08 AM	#51
cagueits Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 762	I side with the group who thinks the blind man has the same rights as everyone else. If he kills/maims the wrong person, let him have his day in court just as we would.

May 18th, 2007, 11:45 AM	#60
Rob72 VIP Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 3,112	Anyone here carry a "belly gun"? Anyone practice drawing and shooting at <7yards? If so, you validate this man having a permit. He seems to be one, "aware of his limitations."