shovel99

Hi Folks,
A friend sent me a primer on self defense ammo signed anonymous which came from Chuck Hawks website. It strongly suggested that 147 grain JHP's were a very bad choice of ammo for 9mm.

I have read a great deal about defensive ammo, and currently have and carry Winchester Ranger XT, the civilian legal form of what was Black Talon... both supposed to be very effective rounds... 147 grain. Does this guy know what he is talking about, and why any 147 grain round is bad? Too little velocity to open up? ( F=MA)

Thanks, shovel99.

PS I have about a dozen 9mm and the Kahr PM9 is at the top of my list... and pocket.

Blackeagle

We had a thread a couple of weeks ago that discussed the advantages of lightweight vs heavyweight bullets for self defense. There's not much 9mm specific info there, but you may want to take a look for some general discussion of the effect of bullet weight vs. velocity on terminal performance.

frostyeyes

Lets see if I can get this link right http://www.frag.110mb.com/ this guy tried several 9MM rounds and wrote up his experience along with some very good pics of several bullets before and after

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falcon1

I've never tried the 147-grain 9mms, so I'm afraid I cannot add much to that discussion, but welcome to the forum!

Schwebel

Everyone has their jilted opinions, but from what I've seen the 147gr 9mm is a good self defense round, I carry 147gr HST JHP's. They have good velocity and expansion. That being said, the human body is no water jug. These "tests" sometimes seem a little worthless, they don't take into account bone and different density tissue mass. A bullet may never expand because of where it hit, not because it is a bad round. Again shot placement is more important than anything. A non expanded .22 to the heart is better than a full mushroom .45 through the leg. I've seen probally 50 gunshot wounds in my lifetime and 95% seemed like the bullet didn't expand very much, if any at all. The only ones that seemed "mushroom" were head shots, most likely cause the cranial cavity is probally as close to a water jug as you are going to get. I say buy what seems to shoot well for you, any good quality SD labeled ammo, no matter what the weight or type, should be sufficent for SD.

floridaguy911

I dont know about 147, but I understand that 9mm platform was designed around a 124gr bullet I believe. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

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Doc Holliday

My info maybe screwed but I think the FBI had some difficulties with the early 147 gr loadings. Maybe someone else can clear this up but weren't they trying to shoot the subsonic loads that are better suited for SMG's and getting marginal results out of them? I thought I remembered reading about that sometime ago. I don't personally carry 147gr. in my 9mm. I carry 124 gr. +p.

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Bud White

When i carried a 9mm that is one of the rounds i carried was the 147SXT Does it work can't say never shot anyone but worked well for follow up shots on deer

ccw9mm

Back when 147gr 9mm JHP or ball had slower velocities and half the energy as they do now (for some of the hotter loads), the on-street performance was documented as being fair to poor, with some highly-publicized results showing awful/deadly failure to stop.

Given the questions about expansion, I tend to prefer faster bullets, but I do want plenty of weight to get the job done. I carry the DoubleTap 9mm JHP 124gr +P round, which is advertised at 470 ft-lbs @ 1300 fps. Haven't seen verification of the energy number, but many folks have duplicated the velocity via chrono. Simple tests on country hams and a side of beef in the field showed dramatic expansion and very large/ugly tracks and exit wounds. (Didn't take photos those days, sadly.)

If 147gr was available at similar performance levels, I'd probably opt for that. Even so, the DT 9mm JHP 147gr still delivers above 400 ft-lbs muzzle energy. Being a Speer Gold Dot bullet, it probably has as much chance of expanding as anything out there, but the velocity in this size from DT is 'only' 1125 fps. I prefer faster, to help with the expansion.

Carried 147gr JHP Remington Golden Sabers in my Browning BDM for years. It was the best-feeding and -cycling round I could find, though it was a bid down on performance. Was nowhere near DT's level, though.

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Cupcake

This study begs to differ that 147gr so't work so good.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs9.htm

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