Can a spouse purchase a gun for his/her spouse - Page 3

NCHornet · February 1st, 2008, 10:19 AM

To the OP,
Remember you are getting views from may different states, the only one that matters is the state you are in, which is NC. I have already posted the NC state law on this on your other thread. Yes, you were mislead by the two dept's you called, that is why when it comes to important info like this you get it for yourself and don't rely on what so and so told you.
Here is the NC state law again.

Quote:

Under North Carolina law, it is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to sell,
give away, transfer, purchase, or receive, at any place in the state, any pistol, unless the purchaser or receiver has first obtained a license or permit to receive such a pistol by the
sheriff of the county where the purchaser or receiver resides, or the purchaser or receiver
possesses a valid North Carolina-issued concealed carry permit. This requirement to obtain
a permit prior to the transfer of a pistol applies not only to a commercial transaction,
typically at a sporting goods store, but also between private individuals or companies
throughout North Carolina. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-402(a)
In addition, this State law has been interpreted to require that a pistol permit be
obtained by the receiver of a handgun when such person inherits a pistol as a result of the
death of another person. The permit should be given to and retained by the seller or donor
of the handgun. In such a case, the permit should be given to the executor or receiver of
the estate of the deceased person. If the purchaser or receiver uses a North Carolina- issued
concealed carry permit for the transfer, the seller should reference such permit on a bill of
sale

So as you can see even between spouses you must have either a pistol permit or a CC permit, no if and's or but's about it.

itschuck · February 1st, 2008, 01:21 PM

Really glad I live in kentucky...

Jaystekan · February 1st, 2008, 05:06 PM

Well, what is this guns intended use? It seems to me that if a Husband or wife purchases a 'house" gun, and the other spouse uses the house gun in self defense, then who has ownership of the firearm at the time of the incident? There have been many instances where a person uses a gun in self defense when they themselves don't "own" the gun, and don't have a purchase or carry permit for a gun. When I was military, I owned a gun, deployed and left my personal firearm in the house with my wife for protection. Technically she had no carry permit, no background check, no purchase permit, yet if she had to use "my" gun, then she would have been totally within the law. Now, if he is planning on purchasing the gun for his wife to carry, then who purchases the gun doesn't really matter. Without the permit, she can't carry anything no matter who purchases it, and with a permit she CAN carry it no matter who purchases it. My wife carries a bersa thunder that I purchased, on a regular basis. In NC guns aren't tied to the permit, and there is not gun registration other then when buying it. If she has a carry permit then she can carry any gun regardless of whether he or she purchased it as my wife and i do all the time. if she has no permit then she cannot carry it regardless of who purchased it. A house gun is another matter. Regardless of the purchaser, in a self defense scenario, actual gun ownership is a moot point. Since you are overseas I am assuming that you want to buy a gun for her for self defense while you are gone, been there, done that. She cannot pick the gun up at the ffl regardless of who actually purchases it, the person picking it up MUST have a purchase permit in their name. If you come home, buy a house gun, then leave again, leaving the gun in the house, then she is totally fine with having the gun in the home for self defense even though you bought it. If you buy a gun, she carries it, as long as she has a carry permit, she is fine as well. The gun will forever be owned by you, but carried by her legally because she has a permit. My wifes car is in my name, but she drives it. My wifes gun was purchased by me, but she carries it daily and has been "carded" for it by police without trouble. The simple way to do this, is for you the buyer to retain ownership of the gun, but have her use YOUR gun.

Redneck Repairs · February 1st, 2008, 05:32 PM

To the OP .. I am sorry Sir I have no answer, and i shouldent even comment . n However My morals dictate that i do mention that out here in the west we dontt deal with this " gun owner " crap " . Now while i know yall cant move .. if you have ocation to get west of the iron river .. let members here know , you might in fact find a new world to explore .

NCHornet · February 1st, 2008, 06:00 PM

I lived to the West of the "Iron River" to far West and into CA. No thank you sir NC. may not be perfect but it is the most beautiful state I have ever visited, and I have been in most of them, and I am thankful to call it home.
Back to topic:
This goes back to what I said before the laws I have referred to are simply for legal change of ownership and that's it!!
NCH

Jaystekan · February 1st, 2008, 06:29 PM

For a spouse to use another spouses gun, there is no need for a legal change of ownership.

Supertac45 · February 1st, 2008, 06:40 PM

Giving a gun to another person that is legally allowed to own a gun is NOT a straw purchase under Federal Law and is allowed in Michigan. If not, please point out your referance.

Cupcake · February 1st, 2008, 07:38 PM

I learned this when I tried to buy a .22 for my dad and when I let it slip that it was for a gift the dealer wouldn't complete the transaction. Turns out the wording is on atf form 4473 that every licensed dealer must make you fill out. The same wording was on Michigans' application for a permit to purchase a handgun, IIRC. Quotes first. Link at the bottom.

Quote:

Are you the actual buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? WARNING: You are not the actual buyer if you are aquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you. (See important notice 1 for actual buyer definition and examples.)

**Edit**
While typing this post is the first I ever heard of this "important notice 1". The form is new in 2005, maybe it was added or maybe the dealer I went to just didn't read it all. but here it is:

Quote:

1. Actual buyer: ... You are also the actual buyer if you are legitimately aquiring the firearm as a gift for a third party...

Goes on to give examples proving how wrong and uneducated I am. Uhhh, my bad. Guess you can't necessarily trust a guy just because he does something for a living. I woulda thunk that a salesguy would know every loophole that could help him complete a sale.

ATF Form 4473, July 2005 revision

Jaystekan · February 1st, 2008, 09:06 PM

Here in NC, you can buy a firearm as a gift. The only thing is, you MUST obtain an original purchase permit from the person you are gifting the gun to, and you must keep that permit in your files. If the person has a ccw, then you must get a copy of their ccw and maintain that. Same thing as a person to person sale of a gun. Being that his spouse is going to use the gun, I don't think the term "gift" applies to this situation. As long as he being the original buyer maintains actual ownership of the gun, and his wife either never takes the gun out of the home, and/or if she does, she carries it legally with a ccw permit, then there is no gifting involved. It is still his gun. The original buyer is still the owner of the firearm. If this was illegal, then everytime a ccw holder ran to the store, they would have to lock up every single gun in the home to keep them away from their non-licensed spouse. If she is using the gun as a home defense firearm, and the gun never leaves the home, then there should be nothing illegal about it. It is not HER gun, it is HIS gun, it is in THEIR home. Nothing illegal about it. To put it simply, you can purchase a home defense gun for your home, not for your wife, but for your home, if the wife needs it, uses it, etc... then that fine, but you can't actually transfer ownership to her unless she has a ccw ,or a purchase permit AND you write up and sign something that says she is the legal owner.

Sergeant Mac · February 2nd, 2008, 01:52 PM

I just bought my wife a Kahr CW40 the other day. Had the gun dealer pull out various pistols, handed each in turn to her, and her eyes lit up on the Kahr.

I then handed the dealer my driver's license, NE "Handgun Purchase Certificate", and credit card.

No problem at all.

Then again, he knows me, and therefore knows my character, and that of any woman I would choose to make my wife. (nobody's talking about her JUDGMENT here......)

February 1st, 2008, 01:21 PM	#22
itschuck Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 212	Really glad I live in kentucky... __________________ Current collection: SIG P239 2-tone 40 with DAK, SW MP 40 Compact, Ruger SP101, Ruger Single Six 32H&R birdshead, Walther PP, SW 360 38+p Airweight, Browning Buckmark

February 1st, 2008, 05:06 PM	#23
Jaystekan Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NC Posts: 376	Well, what is this guns intended use? It seems to me that if a Husband or wife purchases a 'house" gun, and the other spouse uses the house gun in self defense, then who has ownership of the firearm at the time of the incident? There have been many instances where a person uses a gun in self defense when they themselves don't "own" the gun, and don't have a purchase or carry permit for a gun. When I was military, I owned a gun, deployed and left my personal firearm in the house with my wife for protection. Technically she had no carry permit, no background check, no purchase permit, yet if she had to use "my" gun, then she would have been totally within the law. Now, if he is planning on purchasing the gun for his wife to carry, then who purchases the gun doesn't really matter. Without the permit, she can't carry anything no matter who purchases it, and with a permit she CAN carry it no matter who purchases it. My wife carries a bersa thunder that I purchased, on a regular basis. In NC guns aren't tied to the permit, and there is not gun registration other then when buying it. If she has a carry permit then she can carry any gun regardless of whether he or she purchased it as my wife and i do all the time. if she has no permit then she cannot carry it regardless of who purchased it. A house gun is another matter. Regardless of the purchaser, in a self defense scenario, actual gun ownership is a moot point. Since you are overseas I am assuming that you want to buy a gun for her for self defense while you are gone, been there, done that. She cannot pick the gun up at the ffl regardless of who actually purchases it, the person picking it up MUST have a purchase permit in their name. If you come home, buy a house gun, then leave again, leaving the gun in the house, then she is totally fine with having the gun in the home for self defense even though you bought it. If you buy a gun, she carries it, as long as she has a carry permit, she is fine as well. The gun will forever be owned by you, but carried by her legally because she has a permit. My wifes car is in my name, but she drives it. My wifes gun was purchased by me, but she carries it daily and has been "carded" for it by police without trouble. The simple way to do this, is for you the buyer to retain ownership of the gun, but have her use YOUR gun. __________________ The pen is mightier than the sword — unless you are in a swordfight!

February 1st, 2008, 06:00 PM	#25
NCHornet Distinguished Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mt Airy, NC Posts: 1,403	I lived to the West of the "Iron River" to far West and into CA. No thank you sir NC. may not be perfect but it is the most beautiful state I have ever visited, and I have been in most of them, and I am thankful to call it home. Back to topic: This goes back to what I said before the laws I have referred to are simply for legal change of ownership and that's it!! NCH __________________ Carry On!! NCHornet

February 1st, 2008, 06:29 PM	#26
Jaystekan Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NC Posts: 376	For a spouse to use another spouses gun, there is no need for a legal change of ownership. __________________ The pen is mightier than the sword — unless you are in a swordfight!

February 1st, 2008, 06:40 PM	#27
Supertac45 VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan's U.P. Posts: 2,952	Giving a gun to another person that is legally allowed to own a gun is NOT a straw purchase under Federal Law and is allowed in Michigan. If not, please point out your referance. __________________ Les Baer 45 Sig Man N.R.A. Patron Life Member M.C.R.G.O.

February 1st, 2008, 05:32 PM	#24
Redneck Repairs VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,141	To the OP .. I am sorry Sir I have no answer, and i shouldent even comment . n However My morals dictate that i do mention that out here in the west we dontt deal with this " gun owner " crap " . Now while i know yall cant move .. if you have ocation to get west of the iron river .. let members here know , you might in fact find a new world to explore .

February 1st, 2008, 09:06 PM	#29
Jaystekan Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NC Posts: 376	Here in NC, you can buy a firearm as a gift. The only thing is, you MUST obtain an original purchase permit from the person you are gifting the gun to, and you must keep that permit in your files. If the person has a ccw, then you must get a copy of their ccw and maintain that. Same thing as a person to person sale of a gun. Being that his spouse is going to use the gun, I don't think the term "gift" applies to this situation. As long as he being the original buyer maintains actual ownership of the gun, and his wife either never takes the gun out of the home, and/or if she does, she carries it legally with a ccw permit, then there is no gifting involved. It is still his gun. The original buyer is still the owner of the firearm. If this was illegal, then everytime a ccw holder ran to the store, they would have to lock up every single gun in the home to keep them away from their non-licensed spouse. If she is using the gun as a home defense firearm, and the gun never leaves the home, then there should be nothing illegal about it. It is not HER gun, it is HIS gun, it is in THEIR home. Nothing illegal about it. To put it simply, you can purchase a home defense gun for your home, not for your wife, but for your home, if the wife needs it, uses it, etc... then that fine, but you can't actually transfer ownership to her unless she has a ccw ,or a purchase permit AND you write up and sign something that says she is the legal owner. __________________ The pen is mightier than the sword — unless you are in a swordfight!

February 2nd, 2008, 01:52 PM	#30
Sergeant Mac Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Nebraska Posts: 709	I just bought my wife a Kahr CW40 the other day. Had the gun dealer pull out various pistols, handed each in turn to her, and her eyes lit up on the Kahr. I then handed the dealer my driver's license, NE "Handgun Purchase Certificate", and credit card. No problem at all. Then again, he knows me, and therefore knows my character, and that of any woman I would choose to make my wife. (nobody's talking about her JUDGMENT here......)

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