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General Firearm Discussion The place for general firearms and shooting discussions that may not fit well in the forums focusing on concealed carry.

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Old February 19th, 2008, 02:59 PM   #11
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If yours is reliable, and you aren't worried about concealing it, I see no real down side to using it for your HD pistol. You might get some extra heat from an over-zealous prosecutor, but in my (completely non-legal) opinion it is a minor issue.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 03:28 PM   #12
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I have an AR-15 and a shotgun for home defense. If somebody invades my house, all bets are off. I'm not going to play fair. If somebody invades your house, and you have the right to use lethal force (according to your laws), and your gun is legal, I don't see how there could be any downside to using a high capacity magazine. If the laws change to ban them, I might hesitate because of a potential test case, but other than that, there is only one downside I can think of. The balance is definitely affected, and with any pistol, shot placement is crucial. If it throws off your accuracy, I wouldn't use it. If you experience any failures at the range, I wouldn't use it. But if you shoot well with it, I would say you are good to go.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 03:37 PM   #13
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Assuming it is reliable, the only real downside I can see to it is if you get into a retention struggle, it makes for a nice lever to try and twist the gun out of your hand.

I'd have to say, though, that I don't see any advantage to 33 rounds over 15 in a typical home defense situation. If you can't get it down with the first 15, it might be time for a new plan, rather than 18 more rounds.

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Old February 19th, 2008, 03:43 PM   #14
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Come on Matt, there is always the chance of a zombie invasion...
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Old February 19th, 2008, 05:05 PM   #15
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Capacity like that you may want to consider a Carbine. In the long run gives you better terminal ballistics/control/ and ease of use.

Reliablity is proven vs. something out of the ordinary.

You asked the question will it be used against you. Absolulty, thats why you should have a good lawyer that knows about guns defending you. The other lawyers job is to throw you in prison and or if its civil take all your money. Hes going to be using any means necessary to get his job done. You and I both know that having 33 rounds is better than having 32 rounds; however, 12 idiots in a court room may not see it that way. I also don't care how a threat is dispatched wether its with a .22 or a F/A MP5. Defense is Defense end of story.

Just remember anything you use will be used (i.e held up in front of 12 people that still think the 2A only applies to Hunting and Breaking Clay Targets) against you in a court to show that you had a differn't mindset, than just trying to defend you or your family. Therefore getting something like "ZOMBIE DEANIMATOR" or "WARNING LEAD POISOING POSSIBLE" painted on the side/front of a gun isn't the smartest Idea IMHO.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 05:17 PM   #16
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Also, your split second desicion will be picked apart for months by people trying to make you and other people second guess your actions.

This brings up another interesting topic I'm working now with a retired (Local) police officer who was in the following shooting mentioned at the bottom. We were talking about Qual scores. I know an instructor who encourages at least 1 miss on any qual score. Basically, to somewhat try and protect him/her down the road from civil liablitly. I've heard alot people call BS on this and I never have really heard a Pro argument in favor of this until recently.

Story:
This Former officer ended up in a shooting where he killed a person attacking him. He shot him center mass with a .45 and killed him. Basically the officer was being attacked by a mob pulled his G21 and engaged the biggest threat killing him.
This officer had shot the DCJS course over 10 times in his carrier. Each time Qualifiying Perfect scores. The first question the attorney asked him was why he did not try and wound this young man, do to this officers Prior Expert Marksman performances on his quals.

Of course the officer said I was being attacked by a mob. I shot to stop; however, the lawyer tried to play that angle, but ended up failing in the long run. One comes to think though if this had been a civilian who is not protected by Department Liablity would it have been a lot worse. One wonders only time will tell.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 11:51 AM   #17
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The mag hanging out of the grip is a weak point without the grip for added strength.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 01:21 PM   #18
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Reliability

Most of the extended mags i have seen for non-Glock pistols are pretty unreliable. I had bought a bunch of extended 9mm mags for my Ruger PC9 and got rid of about 50% of the 25 or 30 round mags because they were unreliable. When I had a Camp 9 I had only one reliable 25 round mag for it. If you had a reliable one in an HD pistol, go for it, saves having to worry about how to carry a spare mag in your PJs at 4 AM if SHTF. I carry a 10 round Wilson Bureaucrat for my 1911, and a Glock 17 mag as a spare for my CCW Glock 19, and that's about all I can imagine using concealed.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 04:15 PM   #19
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Reliablity and concealment aside, the liabilty issue is a big one.

Since juries are as fickle as sorority girls, no one can reasonably predict what they will do. However, I can tell you that the prosecutor and the civil atty are gonna come after you with all barrels blazing over that magazine. If I were on that jury, I would not be able to overlook the implication that you had every intent to kill the individual, not simply to stop the threat.

DAs, prosecutors, judges and juries, look very differently at gunfights where more than three rounds are discharged. It's a lot harder to establish a "good shoot" in those cases.

As a rule of thumb, I would not personally use anything for purposes of self defense, which exceeded the maximum capacity, or capability of any stock firearm.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 05:11 PM   #20
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Yeah, I'm thinking it's going to go in the practice bag.

Thanks for the advice, guys.
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