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Old March 7th, 2008, 04:13 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Ghettokracker71 View Post
AS far as the mother--Well that really sucks. May she R.I.P. I feel for the father, his son shot,and wife killed in the same night. .
FYI it was his sons friend who was shot, the son ruptured his spleen in the accident from what I read. Either way that is a hardship there, I wonder where he was durring all this?



I feel bad for everyone here, I am sorry but the kids story does not add up, and there will not be an indictment, "sneaking up quietly" on the partygoers, who were playing music so loud that they could be heard several blocks away?

There was no need for stealth in the neighbors yard, and certainly no need to come close to the house at all if they were going to the "party". How is it the parent of the child had to be woken up was the other house so far away that she did not hear the gunshot? And why didnt the "shooting victim" call 911?

I will tell you what I think, they knew they were going to get into trouble for trying to break into the old folks home. As a nurse her first thought was to rush them herself to the hospital, good mom, except she should have also called 911 and told them she was bringing in a gunshot victim. My child comes home with a gunshot YES I AM RUSHING THEM MYSELF TO THE HOSPITAL, BUT I AM ALSO CALLING AHEAD SO I KNOW MY CHILD IS GOING TO GET INSTANT TREATMENT FROM A PREPARED STAFF.


15 year olds should know better than to sneek around a house at night, again you have to ask yourself why would the kids be so close to that window, if they were trying to sneak up on the partygoers?

In defense of the kids, maybe just maybe they were trying to use the house of the old folks as cover/concealment in their "Quest to sneak up on the partygoers" again why you need to sneak up on them?

Last edited by Southtexas; March 7th, 2008 at 04:17 AM. Reason: merged a quote from above with post so as not to double post
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Old March 7th, 2008, 01:31 PM   #32
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From info presented, I don't believe this senior is going to prison. To me, the kids were close enough to the window (a few feet or less?) and acting in a suspicious enough manner (climbing the fence, sneaking around the porch) that I would reasonably believe they were planning to break into the residence.

Kids story about only wanting to see the party next door is plausible, but there is no real way to confirm it. They could have been intending to break in, burglarize the house, and beat the occupants? I don;t think it matters what they say there intent was, I judge them by their actions and:

They acted like burglars in the night, and that is the sort of thing that gets you shot in Texas.

Drunk driving is one of the true evils of our society.
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 09:30 PM   #33
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Update!

Well, knock me over with a feather...sounds like I was off base on this one. The Kaufman GJ actually indicted! I still stand by my original post #17, but I did NOT think he would actually be indicted...here's the story.Kaufman County man indicted in shooting of teen who crossed yard | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Latest News
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Originally Posted by Dallas Morning News
A Kaufman County man faces possible prison time for shooting one of two teens cutting across his yard in March, an act that triggered a chain of events that ended with a traffic accident that killed the other boy’s mother.

W.C. Frosch, 74, was inside his home March 1 when he shot 15-year-old Brandon Robinson through a window. Mr. Frosch has said he thought the boys were about to break into his home.

Kaufman County authorities initially cited the state’s new “castle law” in declining to file charges. Under the law, a person is presumed to be acting reasonably if he shoots someone he believes is trying to break into his occupied home, business or car.

Prosecutors said they treated this case like any other.

“Self-defense claims are weighed on a case-by-case basis, based on the facts,” Kaufman County District Attorney Rick Harrison said Monday. “We decided to take it to the grand jury, and they indicted him.”

Mr. Frosch was indicted last week on a charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, a second-degree felony, punishable by two to 20 years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

He was not available for comment Monday, but he has said that he believes the shooting was justified.

“I don’t think I had really much choice,” Mr. Frosch said after the incident. “I think I was justified in what I done.”

On the night of the shooting, Mr. Frosch told officers he thought the teens were prowlers, so he armed himself with a handgun and told his wife to call 911.

He shot through a window, striking Brandon under his left arm. His injuries were not life-threatening.

“Mr. Frosch shot me,” Brandon said he told his friend Devin Nalls that night. “Your neighbor shot me!”

Brandon was spending the night with Devin, 16, whose family lives on one side of Mr. Frosch’s property. The teens told officers they were crossing his yard to check out a loud party that was under way at a home on the other side of the Frosches’.

After the shooting, the teenagers ran back to Devin’s home next door and his mother, June Nalls, 41, loaded the boys into her truck to take them to a local hospital.

On their way, a 1996 Ford driven by Agustin Renteria, 27, of Kaufman, crossed the center stripe and struck Ms. Nalls’ pickup head-on, police said.

She was killed. Her son and Brandon survived.

Police later arrested Mr. Renteria on a charge of failure to stop and render aid, and more serious charges were pending blood alcohol test results.

There was no answer Monday at the Nalls home.

No trial date has been set for Mr. Frosch, who will be tried in the 86th District Court.

Initially, there was some question about whether Mr. Frosch’s actions were legal under the “castle doctrine,” which the state Legislature passed in its last session.

The law authorizes residents to use deadly force to protect their property in some situations without requiring them to retreat first.

But a sponsor of the law, Sen. Jeff Wentworth, R-San Antonio, said the law was not meant to cover a case like this.

“It was our thinking that you have to be under attack,” Mr. Wentworth said after the shooting.
Looks like this ones gonna get expensive. I don't think he can be convicted, but then again, I didn't think he could be indicted, either.

So, it turns out, a Texas GJ is capable of giving a 'True Bill'. Who woulda thought?

I'm just wondering how much the True Bill had to do with the actual shooting/situation, and how much of it had to do with the Mother dying while taking the boy to the hospital.
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 09:56 PM   #34
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...and how much of it had to do with the Mother dying while taking the boy to the hospital.
I agree and it's a damn shame because the accident has NOTHING to do with the shooting.
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 11:05 PM   #35
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Just cause they indicted doesn't mean he will be found guilty at trial
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 11:07 PM   #36
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Just cause they indicted doesn't mean he will be found guilty at trial
You are right, and I do not believe he will be found guilty. It does however mean he must retain an attorney and go through a trial. Not exactly a story-book ending.
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 11:38 PM   #37
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This isn't about the castle law. It's not even a shoot first ask questions later kind of thing...Or maybe it is. If you see two people trying to stealthily cross your property and end up 3 feet from your window...Do you ask them what's going on? You're an elderly man with your wife. You already know there is some kind of party, and you see two people sneaking onto your property. As for the law. It does not require that the 2 kids had an intent of burglary or criminal mischief, it just requires that Mr Frosch believes that they had that intent, and that it was a reasonable assumption. When I first heard about this case, I thought it was ridiculous. But this article sheds some more light on it. The two kids were 3 feet from his window...He had observed them stealthily crossing the yard, he had already had his wife call the police, this doesn't show a man who wants to go out looking or a fight. His judgement may not have been the best, but he was scared.

And the castle law isn't changing things that much. When I grew up, sometimes we would cross some guys pasture or property to get to a friends house or to go to his pond or whatever, and we knew if we didn't have permission that we took a chance on getting shot or shot at. I can't think of any time when a property owner actually tried to hit somebody, but the chance was always there.
Thank you.
Property rights are about respecting the rights and safety of others, as well as their property lines. If someone were a perceived threat to my family, I'd react similarly, whether they were 55, 25, 15, or 10. Plenty of under-aged gang-bangers; I'm not asking for ID and parental referrences. You don't belong here, you know you don't belong here, you play the dice as they land. If it doesn't play to your favor, blame your parents for not raising you fit for civilized company. Yes, I said civilized; property rights are one of the fundamental principles of our Constitution, and shouldn't be blown off by any emotional reaction because someone old enough to know better (but whose parents failed) got himself hurt due to his deliberate disregard of other's rights. If it wasn't deliberate, and he didn't know, why was he "skulking?"
Rant, rant, I know, but I'm sick of hearing "He was such a GOOD BOY!" every time something happens to some under-aged punk with a history. As long as society keeps making excuses and apologies, we produce more of them; as soon as "they" are on their own, "they" will quickly learn. They aren't stupid, they're spoiled and coddled for acting stupid.
OK, enough.

Stay safe,

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Old June 3rd, 2008, 12:13 AM   #38
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Just reading the printed story, the castle doctrine law isn't really in question here. There have been laws on the books in Texas for years, that would have allowed the homeowner to use deadly force, without relying on the protection of the castle doctrine. There is no need for the BG to be inside your home in order to use deadly force in Texas, there never has been. If you feel threatened, there is no requirement, that the BG be inside with you. Remember, theft and criminal mischief at night time, are legal justifications to use deadly force, in Texas.

I was raised here and was taught that if you go sneaking around someone's home or property at night, you are fair game and could get shot. Most folks teach their kids the same thing, it's called respect for others. This is especially true in rural areas, where LEO's are few and far between.
I work for the City Utilities, and my job has me sometimes troubleshooting at all odd hours of the day/night, through people's yards and around their houses. Many times in the wee hours of the morn'. I always leave my radio (2-way) on maximun volume, leave all my truck lights flashing, and carry the biggest, baddest, most obnoxious floodlight I can get, and I'm not shy about flashing it across all the residents' bedroom and bathroom windows as I traverse the areas necessary. I also wear the most dorky choice of uniform I can (we have some options, including blue-jeans, which I forego) so I look like Dobie Gillis more than anything. I've survived this job unscathed for 20 years by NOT skulking around. I've never been threatened, had a phone-in complaint, or other inconvenience, although I've had many people walk out on the back patio to see "who the H&LL" was out there. Point is, I could have been shot many times, and the residents could have gotten away with it legally some of those times - IF people were as trigger-happy as the BS media tries to make out we are. Most people just want to be secure, and no matter how much of an ass I behave I've never appeared to be a threat. A PITA, yes, but never a threat. (Even made some good friends - eventually.)

Stay safe,

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Old June 3rd, 2008, 07:45 AM   #39
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Hey, Chuck...keep your bloody floodlight away from my window!
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Old June 3rd, 2008, 09:34 AM   #40
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There havbe been an interesting number of articles lately in sociology and psych journals about the "Juvenile-Adult Male in Modern America." Essentially, without the demand for establishing stability (self-sufficiency through employment, home-ownership/rental, family, etc..) modern males are societally being encouraged to be Pokemon-trading, Warcraft-playing, Wi-enabled children into their 30s. Actions have consequences. Seniors in Dallas County rarely engage in gang activity, but they are the most common victims of property crime and (IIRC) the 3rd most common victims of personal assault.

Sad? Yes. But to paraphrase Ronnie Johns, "Grow the **** up, junior!" Statistically the threat to the 70 y/o property owners is far greater than junior's need to surreptitiously cross property to party.

An assumption on my parts, but if mom didn't perform primary care and call Dallas EMS (some of the best in the nation), I would be inclined to view her as an "enabeler" rather than a directional force for junior. I may, of course, be well off the mark...
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