JD

So.....your guess with no stats is more likely than his guess with no stats.

How do you compare two things like that to figure out which is more common when no one knows if either case had never happened?

It's almost like trying to figure out which one will cause more damage, all the nukes in the world going off at once, or the moon colliding with Earth.

Getting back to the topic, I think OC is a viable option pending on different sets of circumstances.

I'm pretty much in the same boat as Chooie, I OC when mandated by law and on other occasions where it just fits better, I've OC'd after church when it was just to dang hot to keep on a suit coat, I've OC'd after teaching as I just came off the range and saw no need to change my carry method at the time. I prefer CC due to other circumstances that go along with my employment such as the "no weapons at work policy" and the fact that I do work in close proximity to PD personnel, they don't like non PD to go walking into dispatch with a firearm.

Regarding the "movement" I see this on two fronts, I understand the VCDL's actions taken in restaurants regarding the fact that the presance of firearms is not causing chaos and murder like the Gov. of VA claimed would occur if firearms were permitted in restaurants that serve, and further more he was stating that people in NOVA would be asked to leave and it's simply not happening. Hey! Gov. Kaine, put that in your pipe and smoke it.

The other front is a little more different, it seems that some will go out of their way to get into an altercation so they can climb on the OC cross and be martyred for the cause, I'm not talking about Greg Rotz with his incident or Rich and Jahwarriior with the Dickson City incident. I'm talking about those that can't wait to have a run in with the PD so they can "educate them" I'm all for exercising your rights, but if your so into it that you want to get into an altercation just to prove you're right, you've got issues. The same goes for concealed carriers, just in different flavors. Look at all the people that get all Ninja'd out and then ask when can they arrest people?


My bottom line is this, carry which ever way works for you, just so long as you carry legally.

__________________


Looking for something else to read? Check out the DefensiveCarry.com Blog Section

Forum Customs & Courtesies

Forum Usage: Tips and Tricks

DrLewall

Personally, I am not opposed to OC..I prefer CC tho

__________________
"I don't like 'repeat' offenders. I like dead offenders!" Ted Nugent...

youngda9

It's simple JD, I'll explain it to you...all it takes is a little thought.

IF people were being targeted and shot first for open carrying we would have heard A LOT about it. It would be in the headlines, and actual incidences would be talked about on the forums. It would be a statistic, measurable and everything, there would be concrete evidence of this happening.....and yet there isn't. huh...

Yet we all know that many a robber has changed his plans at a convenience store when seeing a cop walk in(using robbery as an example). The same type of thing can happen when they see someone with a gun, and there shouldn't be any doubt in anyone's mind that it has. No it isn't measurable...but it does happen. Just like a robber would count the 6 shots in his gun and decide not to rob the liquor store that has 10 football players in it...it's force on force...and robbers don't want to encounter force. Check out the estimated statistics on how many times showing a gun stops a violent attack, it's 2.5 million times a year see page 49 of the link, or Google John R. Lott if you're ever bored, better yet read his book Don't you think that a certain % of those attacks are stopped without the person having to draw? We've all heard stories about a CC person placing their hand on their gun to stop an attack(not clearing leather, just letting the BG know they are armed).

So on one side we have something that we can measure(OC being targeted)...and the occurrences are like ZERO. On the other side we have something we can't completely measure(OC deterring crime)...and we know this occurrence are much greater than zero.

I'll let you figure out which one wins :)

Oh, and the moon vs. nukes question. Just calculate the energy of both. Take into account the area of the impact...are nukes scattered or all at a point location(like the moon strike will occur) and you have your answer. That one is simple also.

__________________
Speak softly, and carry a big stick.

ccw9mm

Yup. I was under the impression that the clean-up PITA was what drove the decision. (Remnants of memories from playing clean-up crew on other boards, elsewhere. BTDT.)

It's nice to know that all should feel comfortable to have a simple discussion on options of carry, though, and that DC.com is all for that ... so long as it remains civil, respectful and intellectual enough.

Being able to discuss the pros/cons of everything we do is, frankly, the greatest benefit of DC.com, from my viewpoint. Methods of carry, techniques and skills, equipment and gear, risks and rewards. A worthy discussion can have it all, with the goal of improving the safety, security and quality of life of those involved.

Thanks, QK, Bumper and the rest of the staff.

__________________
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Reality: Disarming citizens only results in more victims.
Tip: Use the <search> feature.

DaveH

+1 Especially the accepted as normal -- in my mind meaning the (by then former) accept OC as normal.

I do both, depending on where I am and the anticipated factor.

__________________
I am neither a lawyer, nor I do not play one on television or on the Internet. I hope no one assumes that I am giving legal advice.

Veni, Vidi, Velcro

ccw9mm

I'd rather have moonbeams in my hair than be glowing in the dark, but that's just me. Boom!

I do both, as well, but rarely OC except for in the wilds, on private lands of friends (farms, ranches). The citified folk in Portland would likely call down the cavalry onto the head of any and all who attempted OC anywhere near the city limits. Better to save themselves from themselves, in that regard. Though, were that ever to change, I'd consider it under the appropriate circumstances. Until then, I'm satisfied to keep it under my shirt and retain the element of unknown/surprise in my court. To each his/her own.

__________________
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Reality: Disarming citizens only results in more victims.
Tip: Use the <search> feature.

JD

I am in total agreement that the sight of a gun may deter crime, but it is still an unknown. But how many times have you heard about a gun on someone's hip deterring a crime? As I have not heard about it on the news or a forum somewhere, does that mean it really hasn't happened?

...all I was saying is that neither can be PROVEN and there's no sense in arguing over it. It's just like the which is better, Coke or Pepsi, it's all opinion, very little fact.

__________________


Looking for something else to read? Check out the DefensiveCarry.com Blog Section

Forum Customs & Courtesies

Forum Usage: Tips and Tricks

Kerbouchard

They are all Cokes, Pepsi is just a kind of Coke. And Coke is better. What kind of Coke? Coke.

Personally, I wish OC was legal in Texas. I doubt I would, but it would be nice to not have to worry if my shirt is an inch too short, or if exposing the grip or bottom of the holster if I bend or turn a certain way.

I would also like it to become more mainstream. I do believe if I ever chose to OC, I would definitey carry a concealed backup.

__________________
Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.

http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

Who is John Galt?

youngda9

re-read what we both just wrote...sounds like you aren't quite getting it.

You haven't heard about it(a gun on someone's hip deterring a crime) because it isn't measurable...but we all know it happens...seriously.

You haven't heard of occurrences of OC being targeted becasue it hasn't happened(this we know for sure).

You say neither can be PROVEN..that is WRONG. OC being targeted can be PROVEN FALSE, because it doesn't happen(haven't heard about incidences, speak up if you have).

An analogy:
Johnny is the bully, he may not be strong but he asserts himself as such. Johnny steals Timmy's lunch money every day because Timmy is weak and Johnny knows he won't encounter any resistance. Johnny knows not to pick on Billy because he knows that Billy will fight back.

__________________
Speak softly, and carry a big stick.

JD

I'm not faulting your argument, just the logic backing it up, you stated that the targeted first thing is an emotional response so logically, dispel that it CAN'T happen, the fact that it hasn't happened yet, does not mean that it can't happen.

See where I'm going with this?

Emotionally, I agree with you. Logically, there isn't enough data to come up with a factual answer.

__________________


Looking for something else to read? Check out the DefensiveCarry.com Blog Section

Forum Customs & Courtesies

Forum Usage: Tips and Tricks