Open Carry - What do you think? - Page 8

SixBravo · June 20th, 2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccw9mm

Most every instance of a bank robbery in which the on-duty, armed security guard was targeted. Ignoring that one could get the BG's killed. Targeting him/them, specifically, at the outset can result in a successful robbery (from the BG's point of view).

Hmm. This is a very good point! One thing to remember, though, is that a Security Guard is a constant. They are known to be in that location and probably where s/he will be standing. The armed citizen, be it OC or CC is still the unknown factor. If they are standing with their strong-side away it is possible they (the perpetrators) may never even know...

..however this also brings an important point. OC'ing in a robbery situation may very well force the hand of the carrier. Either you clear leather or, at the best, lose your firearm.

JD · June 20th, 2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QKShooter

Not too common here in the U.S. but, in some other countries LEOs are gang ambushed just to gain possession of their carry firearm.

Just making a statement of fact and nothing more than that.

Will that ever become more common here? Who can say?

Actually, it happened to an officer in Hartford, CT last year around this time, he literally got sacked. They got his duty belt which contained his radio, gun, mags, and who knows what else.

Rob72 · June 20th, 2008, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CR2008

If some loiterer were look out for who makes a suitable target, a person with a gun on their hip is just about the last person they want to mess with,

I have to say (and this applies to some LE as well) many folks are wrapped up "in the gun," lack awareness and the physical ability to resist a determined disarm. Equally, most CC'ers aren't prepared for a blitz-attack. For this reason, I dislike the general concept of OC: until we are prepared and legally able to "dispatch with immediacy" an armed or unarmed assailant while we carry, we offer the criminal community extraordinary opportunity.

If one hasn't taken a real punch to the head, unexpectedly, in the last 6 months or so, and actively, agressively functioned through the event, one should carefully evaluate one's preparedness.(As in the case JD cites above)

farronwolf · June 20th, 2008, 05:57 PM

In Texas we can't open carry a handgun in public, well technically we can't. I OC when at home after I have taken a jacket off in the winter, and don't hesitate to go out in the yard to get the trash, or mail, paper, whatever, I am in my yard and it is perfectly legal. The only other time I do is when I am hunting, I will have my 44 mag on my hip with or without a rifle.

That being said, I don't think that I would OC regularly if it was legal. I say that for the same reason that I don't carry a shotgun around with me. Carrying a shotgun around, just about everywhere is perfectly legal in the state of Texas. I can even go into a bar with one. How many of you are legally able to carry long guns around in your state? How many of you do? If it is legal to do so, why don't you?

Simple answer, public reaction/opinion. Next time you go to walmart or the pizza parlor, whereever, picture the person next to you with a shotgun in their hand. Or imagine what the reaction would be from them if you were toting one. That is a pretty clear picture to most.

I would venture to say that many people who see folks OC initially assume that the person is a LEO. At least in Texas when I see someone OC that is what I think because they are the only ones allowed to carry that way.

I carry every day for a simple reason. The protection of my family and others whom may need it one day. I don't need to advertise to anyone that I am carrying, I don't need for someone to see a gun to try to deter crime. I can look at a punk or other unsavory character and let them know that they are being watched, and convey the same message that having a gun exposed on my hip would convey.

I don't know if OC deters crime any more than CC, I don't think that anyone does or will ever have good figures on that. If you want to OC and it is legal in your state more power to you. I don't know if there is a "movement" regarding OC because I don't see it here in Texas or over in Arkansas. Frankly when I go to the Memphis area, I don't see it there either.

I will however continue to CC even if OC is legal one day here. I don't need to draw any more attention to myself than need be. If I want you to notice me, I will make it a point for you to notice me, but my gun will remain out of sight.

AzQkr · June 20th, 2008, 06:09 PM

I've taken the time to read this whole thread just now. Good points/thoughts made by about everyone on either side.

What stood out for me was that the scenario's presented the good and bad of a "robber" armed with a gun was involved. While thats looking at worst case scenario, and what each form of carry may be of benefit or not, I don't think the "armed robber" is covering the overall picture out in public.

We have no idea how people spot the gun on the hip from any distance [ open carried ] and decide not to commit the crime they were about to start. Say the 7-11.

Who knows how many times some banger type/druggie, etc has walked into that type of place, seen an open carried gun on a customer and thought better of carrying out their plan of robbery/theft, or who knows what.

Open carried firearms are spotted by a lot of people, but I'd think the criminals would be spotting them first in any given scenario over the average joe citizen, so we can't possibly determine the potential for the criminal element to not have acted in any criminal activity just because someone with a gun was nearby.

I carry open when working the shop. It's not a matter of if we get hit but when as far as I'm concerned. If they come with ill intent, they'll have likely cased the place for numbers of employees, their routines, their being armed or not, locations of register/safes etc. Even if they were stupid enough to hit that place cold [ I'm thinking 2-4 if it goes down ] with no prior knowledge of the above, they'll be expecting the employees to be carrying even if they weren't and they have that figured into their plans [ it's going to be a bad day for everyone involved ].

The open carry gives me a faster reaction time to threats. I may need that speed, as well as staying alert as much as possible of the goings on in the shop, who's coming in from the lot with what in their hands [ guns are openly brought into the shop daily, in hand, including ak's, ar's, g3's, you name it ]. Better stay alert, it's normal to see these weapons in hand and entering the store.

At times, I've not dropped the shirt over the gun when I've left the shop on the way home and stopped at the local stop and rob for a coffee to go. The alert factor just gets increased as to walking into a problem inside when entering, and no one gets close enough to the gun side, with the gun protected by the elbow.

So, I'm both forms of carry. Up until 4 years ago, it was concealed or not at all. Now I have a choice, and I don't give it much thought really. I stay alert to pulling into where I'm going, alert entering any store/bank etc and if all looks like it's business as usual, I don't give it much thought after that. I do those things anyway no matter how I'm carrying as most everyone should IMO.

Open carry can prevent/deter and it can be a disadvantage when facing hardened criminals who may challenge you regardless of the gun they can see. I really don't believe you are specifically targeted just because you have a gun as often as it deters people from dealing with you.

The lady carrying open on her way to the parking lot is less likely to be attacked as one who is concealed carry or not armed. Thats human nature, and the predator doesn't pick hard targets lightly, hence I think the deterrent of crime to your person is greater than the risk of being targeted just because someone can see it.

Brownie

Hawker · June 20th, 2008, 06:24 PM

When I started this thread, I knew that the subject could become inflammatory, but it remained civil. Thank you to the Admins for allowing this thread to continue. This has to be one of the best discussions regarding defensive carry... open and/or concealed. We are all on the same page when we carry... and that is to protect family and self.... no matter the preferred method.

FN1910 · June 20th, 2008, 07:24 PM

AzQkr - You make some excellent points and the main one is we really have no idea how many attacks OC or CC has detered or inspired. I would like it if SC had OC so that I didn't have to worry so much about accidently exposing it but I doubt that I would ever become full time OC. It is legal in SC to OC on your property so that isn't a problem in my yard.

There are times for both methods and neither is perfect. Use which ever one you want to.

QKShooter · June 20th, 2008, 08:14 PM

The yearly estimated number of potentially violent crimes and attacks that have been prevented by the presence of a firearm - a firearm that ends up NOT being used is quite high.

TRUE - crimes that have been prevented almost never make the news and countless others go completely unreported.

Pinning an exact number of crimes/attacks that have been prevented by an open carry visual would be near 'bout impossible to even guess.

There are always two sides to every coin.

uakaos · June 20th, 2008, 08:18 PM

im not worried about getting jumped by a gaggle of thugs. theres usually 4-6 of us all OC'ing and each of us practice almost every weekend.

Danger Mouse · June 20th, 2008, 08:19 PM

It doe's not matter to me. I am licensed to carry concealed, but as an American, it is my RIGHT to carry a gun. I open carry with pride. The same pride an officer has of his badge, the same pride a fireman has of his hat, the same pride as a doctor who signs his name Dr so and so, the same pride that our soldiers have of their uniform while fighting for our rights and freedom, I am just as proud to carry a gun as a judge is proud of his chambers, the president of his office. I AM AN AMERICAN AND PROUD OF IT!!
Thats why I open carry more than conceal carry. Its my right, my freedom, and my pride!

June 20th, 2008, 05:57 PM	#74
farronwolf Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,449	In Texas we can't open carry a handgun in public, well technically we can't. I OC when at home after I have taken a jacket off in the winter, and don't hesitate to go out in the yard to get the trash, or mail, paper, whatever, I am in my yard and it is perfectly legal. The only other time I do is when I am hunting, I will have my 44 mag on my hip with or without a rifle. That being said, I don't think that I would OC regularly if it was legal. I say that for the same reason that I don't carry a shotgun around with me. Carrying a shotgun around, just about everywhere is perfectly legal in the state of Texas. I can even go into a bar with one. How many of you are legally able to carry long guns around in your state? How many of you do? If it is legal to do so, why don't you? Simple answer, public reaction/opinion. Next time you go to walmart or the pizza parlor, whereever, picture the person next to you with a shotgun in their hand. Or imagine what the reaction would be from them if you were toting one. That is a pretty clear picture to most. I would venture to say that many people who see folks OC initially assume that the person is a LEO. At least in Texas when I see someone OC that is what I think because they are the only ones allowed to carry that way. I carry every day for a simple reason. The protection of my family and others whom may need it one day. I don't need to advertise to anyone that I am carrying, I don't need for someone to see a gun to try to deter crime. I can look at a punk or other unsavory character and let them know that they are being watched, and convey the same message that having a gun exposed on my hip would convey. I don't know if OC deters crime any more than CC, I don't think that anyone does or will ever have good figures on that. If you want to OC and it is legal in your state more power to you. I don't know if there is a "movement" regarding OC because I don't see it here in Texas or over in Arkansas. Frankly when I go to the Memphis area, I don't see it there either. I will however continue to CC even if OC is legal one day here. I don't need to draw any more attention to myself than need be. If I want you to notice me, I will make it a point for you to notice me, but my gun will remain out of sight. __________________ Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.

June 20th, 2008, 06:09 PM	#75
AzQkr Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In the Superstitions Posts: 1,378	I've taken the time to read this whole thread just now. Good points/thoughts made by about everyone on either side. What stood out for me was that the scenario's presented the good and bad of a "robber" armed with a gun was involved. While thats looking at worst case scenario, and what each form of carry may be of benefit or not, I don't think the "armed robber" is covering the overall picture out in public. We have no idea how people spot the gun on the hip from any distance [ open carried ] and decide not to commit the crime they were about to start. Say the 7-11. Who knows how many times some banger type/druggie, etc has walked into that type of place, seen an open carried gun on a customer and thought better of carrying out their plan of robbery/theft, or who knows what. Open carried firearms are spotted by a lot of people, but I'd think the criminals would be spotting them first in any given scenario over the average joe citizen, so we can't possibly determine the potential for the criminal element to not have acted in any criminal activity just because someone with a gun was nearby. I carry open when working the shop. It's not a matter of if we get hit but when as far as I'm concerned. If they come with ill intent, they'll have likely cased the place for numbers of employees, their routines, their being armed or not, locations of register/safes etc. Even if they were stupid enough to hit that place cold [ I'm thinking 2-4 if it goes down ] with no prior knowledge of the above, they'll be expecting the employees to be carrying even if they weren't and they have that figured into their plans [ it's going to be a bad day for everyone involved ]. The open carry gives me a faster reaction time to threats. I may need that speed, as well as staying alert as much as possible of the goings on in the shop, who's coming in from the lot with what in their hands [ guns are openly brought into the shop daily, in hand, including ak's, ar's, g3's, you name it ]. Better stay alert, it's normal to see these weapons in hand and entering the store. At times, I've not dropped the shirt over the gun when I've left the shop on the way home and stopped at the local stop and rob for a coffee to go. The alert factor just gets increased as to walking into a problem inside when entering, and no one gets close enough to the gun side, with the gun protected by the elbow. So, I'm both forms of carry. Up until 4 years ago, it was concealed or not at all. Now I have a choice, and I don't give it much thought really. I stay alert to pulling into where I'm going, alert entering any store/bank etc and if all looks like it's business as usual, I don't give it much thought after that. I do those things anyway no matter how I'm carrying as most everyone should IMO. Open carry can prevent/deter and it can be a disadvantage when facing hardened criminals who may challenge you regardless of the gun they can see. I really don't believe you are specifically targeted just because you have a gun as often as it deters people from dealing with you. The lady carrying open on her way to the parking lot is less likely to be attacked as one who is concealed carry or not armed. Thats human nature, and the predator doesn't pick hard targets lightly, hence I think the deterrent of crime to your person is greater than the risk of being targeted just because someone can see it. Brownie __________________ The mind is the limiting factor http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/index.php

June 20th, 2008, 06:24 PM	#76
Hawker Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Delaware Posts: 41	When I started this thread, I knew that the subject could become inflammatory, but it remained civil. Thank you to the Admins for allowing this thread to continue. This has to be one of the best discussions regarding defensive carry... open and/or concealed. We are all on the same page when we carry... and that is to protect family and self.... no matter the preferred method. __________________ 225th SAC "Phantom Hawk" - US Army - Vietnam 1969-70

June 20th, 2008, 08:14 PM	#78
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Off Of The X Posts: 19,798	The yearly estimated number of potentially violent crimes and attacks that have been prevented by the presence of a firearm - a firearm that ends up NOT being used is quite high. TRUE - crimes that have been prevented almost never make the news and countless others go completely unreported. Pinning an exact number of crimes/attacks that have been prevented by an open carry visual would be near 'bout impossible to even guess. There are always two sides to every coin. __________________ Support Our Military. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

June 20th, 2008, 08:18 PM	#79
uakaos Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: reno nevada Posts: 158	im not worried about getting jumped by a gaggle of thugs. theres usually 4-6 of us all OC'ing and each of us practice almost every weekend. __________________ "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."

June 20th, 2008, 07:24 PM	#77
FN1910 Ex Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: SC Posts: 1,236	AzQkr - You make some excellent points and the main one is we really have no idea how many attacks OC or CC has detered or inspired. I would like it if SC had OC so that I didn't have to worry so much about accidently exposing it but I doubt that I would ever become full time OC. It is legal in SC to OC on your property so that isn't a problem in my yard. There are times for both methods and neither is perfect. Use which ever one you want to.

June 20th, 2008, 08:19 PM	#80
Danger Mouse Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cumberland, VA Posts: 361	It doe's not matter to me. I am licensed to carry concealed, but as an American, it is my RIGHT to carry a gun. I open carry with pride. The same pride an officer has of his badge, the same pride a fireman has of his hat, the same pride as a doctor who signs his name Dr so and so, the same pride that our soldiers have of their uniform while fighting for our rights and freedom, I am just as proud to carry a gun as a judge is proud of his chambers, the president of his office. I AM AN AMERICAN AND PROUD OF IT!! Thats why I open carry more than conceal carry. Its my right, my freedom, and my pride! __________________ Think twice Buy once!

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