Rob99VMI04

Where I'm at Open carry is legal, and we are a stones throw from DC.

However, dirty french fry vs. steack dinner analogy.

Before the Heller decision if a Non Law abiding visitor to Arlington or Alexandria saw a gentleman walking down the street with Wilson, Sig, Glock etc.... On the streets of DC that gun maybe worth 3 times the ammount of money. Seeing you hes already got a possible meal with 400-800 dollars, not to mention for you Wilson, Nighthawk, Les Bear Carriers hes up to 2K now, Plus what might be in your wallet. Therefore the OC'er is a possible Steak dinner, with a side order of Truffles, to the criminal.

Some CCW holders who dress in Ripped jeans and a t-shirt may seem like a dirty Mcdonald french fry to the average criminal and might not even take a second look when he sees me and says that guy "MIGHT" have $20 in his wallet he would probably be wrong because my fiance usually cleans me of all green backs the night before thats why I only carry a debit card. However, what he doesn't see is a $600 pistol, 80-$135 holster, Blackhawk Gladius $240 and a emerson Karambit $230. There a guy with less dollar value on his hip maybe percieved as a more tasty meal then a straggly looking concealed well armed person. Plus IMHO if they know your armed there is a possibility that they may need to do serious bodily harm to you to accomplish their crime. A Concealed firearm they may only use the threat of lethal force not knowing there could be a big surprise.

However, nothings perfect and they could just stab you anyway, but to me the logic is still there.

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To be effective in carrying a gun for self defense requires 3 things a #1 positive- aware-mindset, #2 good training #3 good equipment. Equating this to numbers shows us that if you lack one of these=ZERO times anything is STILL ZERO!-4th grade Math

"When seconds count.....Cops Respond in Minutes"

LongRider

I think your post was fine just not on topic as the mod said the pro/con posts would get deleted. Sadly yours did but my guess is if you did a "Why I Open Carry" thread it would be well received

Not one of the stories related to OC it was all officer related shooting. One after he drew his gun from concealment others in the officers home, etc. Thanks for the effort but not one about OC

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Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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JD

It wasn't deleted, just moved to one of the other threads where it was better suited as it had nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Open Carry - What do you think?

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Code of Virginia: § 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

VA Concealed Handgun Permit Info: From the VSP
VA Reciprocity: From the VSP

Rob72

Officers are "OC"
As I said, you'll have to use your google-fu to find the 2006 Pinizotto/Miller/Davis report that is more relevant, or make a toll-free call to the FBI. I can scrounge around for my copy, and send you a scan, if I can find it. LMK...

LongRider

Thank you that is exactly what I was asking for. You also bring up excellent points. Anyone the does OC definitely has some additional obligations regarding equipment and awareness as well as training. Plus get a better dog

That is what I am asking for any negative experience you or anyone has had as a result of of open carrying. I am fully aware of the fact that there is potential for needless confrontation with LEO who are unaware of the laws in their state. As you know I had a gun pointed at my wife's head with a finger on the trigger and mine because of the officers ignorance, when he saw a legally carried gun in our car . Some here including at least one LEO thought that was OK to point a gun at my wife head. A State Patrol training officer on this board did not think it was OK and has since made a point of seeing his trainees do not make the same mistake and know the law. Neither did the Officers CO, who was very gracious and has given that officer some special attention. Nor was it OK with me. It took me over a week to calm down I do not take having guns pointed at he wife's head kindly It is only because I respect the law and the uniform he was wore that he is alive today. I had him dead to rights no less than six times, not counting the fact that he left the gun in the car with my wife as he turned his back escorting me to his car illegally searched me and placed me in the patrol car. I know I played him like a fiddle and he still does not know it. Six times I know I counted. Of course any personal experience you have had would be most informative and helpful

Yes that is exactly what I was asking for. Obviously a perfect example of poor situational awareness and training possibly poor equipment. Lessons all of us can learn from


Actually most states do allow open carry. Only six specifically prohibit open carry two other have specific restrictions. Twelve states are what are called traditionally open carry specifically permit carry no permit licenses etc required. Eighteen others have no legal restrictions against open carry and 13 require license certification or registration As anti as the media is against carrying guns generally and openly hostile towards open carry it seems that any and all negative instances of open carry would be published far and wide. Example the story both you and Rob brought up. I surely do not think they focus only on negative concealed carry stories.

You and I interpreted Limas post very differently as I recall she stated she does open carry. That said I am looking forward to hearing your direct experiences and learning from them

__________________
Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

Glock Arms Iranian Terrorists to Kill US soldiers

Scott

The guy in Chantilly, VA walked his dog about the same time each morning about 4 AM. He always OC'd. Can you say target? An idiot like this could CC and still have the same result. It was Chantilly in Fairfax County.

If BGs are targeting OCers I haven't heard of it other than that one case. VA has a fair few OCers so I would think if someone was targeting them I would have heard about it through my involvement in the shooting community. You can always go to the OC website and ask the same question. They are probably a better resource on OC questions as that is their focus.

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People, they're what's wrong with this planet. -Scott-

Bark'n

Certainly with open carry the gun is right out there for someone to grab.

And there is a large databank of those who open carry who have been killed with their own guns.

They are police officers and regardless of the fact that they are police officers and the circumstances that surrounds the incident, it does happen.

Not going into a debate on apples and oranges or things like that... Just stating a fact.

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-Bark'n
Semper Fi

"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, will prey on those of us who without one, would surely perish."

SelfDefense

I find it interesting that open carry proponents dismiss the negatives as lack of situational awareness or it was a police officer or it was a security guard or the police officer was ignorant or...

The fact is the negatives are very real and often they have more to do with the individuals than the subject of defensive carry.

As Janq wrote, it is better to keep one's cards to oneself. Personally, I would prefer to blend in rather than draw attention to myself unnecessarily. Surprise is the ultimate advantage.

LongRider

Not looking to debate at all. Trying not to take a stance either pro or con. My question is about gathering information, so I can make a decision about this issue based on fact not assumptions or myths. I am not debating officers shot while OC are irrelevant. Although I do think it is absurd to argue that every officer that is shot is shot because they OC as some have done. I am saying that IF civilians that OC have their guns taken away there should be evidence of that. We did in fact find one story of that happening. IF those that OC are shot first during the commission of a crime there should be evidence of that. IF those that OC are more likely to have a violent confrontation there should be evidence of that. As there is evidence that some LEO and the general public sadly including many who claim to be pro 2A have irrational fear of OC and/or think it is not legal. So far we have found only one story that validate any of the concerns against OC.
I am not advocating OC for anyone, I asked the question because I wanted to get the facts. I am sure you are aware that Brady Bunch and anti's have a tactic of creating an anti myth without any foundation in fact. They repeat it so often people begin to "assume" it is true. An example of that is the myth that we are five times more likely to be shot because we have guns. Total complete lie with no foundation in fact at all, none, zip, nadda. But how often have you heard it stated as fact. When asked for verification how often have you heard some variant of. "Well, well I know it is true so I do not have to prove it"? Sadly that is alot of what I am hearing here. Which is a stance I do not understand. One because I like to think we are above that kind of conduct. Two if we are really pro 2A why would we disparage any method of carrying a weapon? Even if we personally opt not to do so. Why would we not encourage the other guy from doing so if that is what they are comfortable with? Especially when we can not find any evidence that our negative impressions of OC are founded in fact? If they are fact why is this thread not filled with links or stories of people getting their gun taken away or being shot first during the commission of a crime or attacked because they have a gun?

Edited to add
Can you provide me with a link or links to that database. That is exactly what I am looking for. Several internet searches have resulted in nothing

__________________
Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

Glock Arms Iranian Terrorists to Kill US soldiers

LongRider

Cool thanks JD I thought it was a well thought out statement even if a bit off topic. Sorry for adding to the confusion

__________________
Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

Glock Arms Iranian Terrorists to Kill US soldiers