Focus on the willingness to kill? - Page 3

cwblanco · June 30th, 2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FN1910

I really don't know which is worse, carrying a gun without being sure you can use it, or carrying a gun a looking for a place to use it. There are a lot of both out there.

You say that there "are a lot of both out there." It would be quite disappointing to learn that CHL license holders fall into the latter group. So far statistics that are kept for CHL licensees seems to support the conclusion that licenses do not fall into the latter category. Thus, you can take comfort in knowing that those who fall into the latter group are the criminal element of society and are the reason why CHL laws were passed.

Paco · June 30th, 2008, 05:25 PM

This was one thing last week my Wife told me, just after she said she wanted to get her CHL. She told me that she hates the thought of possibly having to kill someone. I explained to her to not think of it as killing someone, but aiming for COM and let the rest happen.

We all know that most of the time a solid set of COM shots will kill, but it seems to have helped ease her in to the thought of drawing down on someone if her or our kids lives are threatened.

NKMG19 · June 30th, 2008, 05:45 PM

If your in a true self defence situation the thought of taking a life would not be in the forefront of your mind. If its on your mind in that situation then maybe your situation is not as grave as you think it is. I envision that when I draw my gun someone is almost on top of me or has a gun pointed at me or actively breaking in my house with my wife and kids inside. In those situations I'll be thinking about stopping that threat. If the BG dies in the process then I will not feel bad about taking a life. I would feel justified.

FN1910 · June 30th, 2008, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwblanco

You say that there "are a lot of both out there." It would be quite disappointing to learn that CHL license holders fall into the latter group. So far statistics that are kept for CHL licensees seems to support the conclusion that licenses do not fall into the latter category. Thus, you can take comfort in knowing that those who fall into the latter group are the criminal element of society and are the reason why CHL laws were passed.

Unfortunately there are a lot of CHL holders walking around just looking for a reason to use their gun but most have enough sense not to unless needed. Its like firefighters secretly long for the clang of the bell signaling a fire.

A few wind up setting fires but the vast majority do not. Ever watch a volunteer fireman on the way to a fire and the smile on his face. For goodness sake don't get in his way.

Eagleks · July 1st, 2008, 12:19 AM

Ok... I'm going to try to make this short. I'll do my best, because I really don't want to get into a lot of details, it's late.

I have been there, it did happen, and it turned out well. A person who had a "hit" put out on them (no, I'm not joking) because when they got divorced, they took with them evidence which could convict several people of killing an LEO (let's say.. can't explain further) as well as some other people. Enough said.

They were under protection, but ... many people had tried to get to them and got past that protection. They carried a gun, but very unfamiliar with it and said "I don't think I could actually ever kill someone, I'ld rather let them kill me then to have to live with that".

We had some very long talks, about the "scum bags" I had dealt with and how these types of guys, could kill you for money and never think a damn thing about it. Period. Why would anyone give up their life for someone like that ? And, if you don't kill them.... they WILL kill you. We won't miss the scum bag. A couple of men had already been arrested, and a couple of the people supposed to be protecting them had been killed ...

Several things occurred... and continued to talk about it. I continued to stress the same thing. Do you think they care if you are dead ?? Obviously they don't care about YOUR life..... so, why would you not protect yourself.... they are putting themselves into that situation in wanting to kill you, and you aren't putting yourself intentionally into this situation.

One night, a guy enters (I won't say how, but it was a dramatic entry) ... had gotten past the 'protection' outside.... and there was an LEO in the house , but who was in the bathroom. The guy entered with 2 guns in his hands, ready to shoot. They pulled their gun and emptied it into the guy, and the LEO (after hearing the entry & first couple of shots) rushed in and emptied their gun into the guy as well. He was DEAD.

The entire time she was shooting this guy, she was yelling "HE TOLD ME I HAD TO DO IT"... over and over. Afterwards, they asked ... who is "HE".. and what did he tell you that you had to do. She explained, to shoot if she had to in order to save her life. She told them it was me. I got asked ... did you tell them this ? I told them .. YES, I did. They congratuated me and said it was really good that I had convinced them, because if it had not been for her shooting, she would have been dead.... it was their shot that killed him... (2nd bullet they figured).

She hated that she had to shoot & kill them, but was glad that she had. She was glad that she was alive and knew she wouldn't be if she had not shot them. She now realized what I was saying..... and thanked me for convincing her... she needed to defend her life.

She then knew... he would have killed her... for REAL... if she had not shot him first. Once that sinks in, the regret goes away much quicker.

Don't know if that would hold true for others, it all depends upon the situation and what occurs, as well as the person involved. But today, they are alive to talk about it.

Eagleks · July 1st, 2008, 12:34 AM

I might add..... all of the BG's were caught, convicted and went to prison for life.

sgtD · July 1st, 2008, 12:40 AM

If it's them or me, or if it's them or mine, I'm gonna do everything within my power to make sure it's them. That's the Law of Nature and I have no problem with it whatsoever.

Tubby45 · July 1st, 2008, 12:46 AM

I am not willing to kill, just prepared to do so if needed to live myself.

CR2008 · July 1st, 2008, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paco

This was one thing last week my Wife told me, just after she said she wanted to get her CHL. She told me that she hates the thought of possibly having to kill someone. I explained to her to not think of it as killing someone, but aiming for COM and let the rest happen.

We all know that most of the time a solid set of COM shots will kill, but it seems to have helped ease her in to the thought of drawing down on someone if her or our kids lives are threatened.

IMHO, Hollywood and the media has placed the rubbish into people minds, that those who legally carry for the purpose to kill intentionally... you noticed how many of the perverts have now portrayed the military and law enforcement... need I say more?

CR2008 · July 1st, 2008, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FN1910

Unfortunately there are a lot of CHL holders walking around just looking for a reason to use their gun but most have enough sense not to unless needed. Its like firefighters secretly long for the clang of the bell signaling a fire.

A few wind up setting fires but the vast majority do not. Ever watch a volunteer fireman on the way to a fire and the smile on his face. For goodness sake don't get in his way.

I knew one guy at my old range, that was found guilty of murder after he shot a man dead for steeling a can of bully beef... besides that guy, I have NEVER met another permit holder that fit the descriptions you have mentioned... actually on the opposite, many use their instincts and situational awareness to avoid trouble.

June 30th, 2008, 05:25 PM	#22
Paco Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 1,018	This was one thing last week my Wife told me, just after she said she wanted to get her CHL. She told me that she hates the thought of possibly having to kill someone. I explained to her to not think of it as killing someone, but aiming for COM and let the rest happen. We all know that most of the time a solid set of COM shots will kill, but it seems to have helped ease her in to the thought of drawing down on someone if her or our kids lives are threatened. __________________ "Don't hit at all if you can help it; don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt If you are not willing to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them! -Paco

June 30th, 2008, 05:45 PM	#23
NKMG19 Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 326	If your in a true self defence situation the thought of taking a life would not be in the forefront of your mind. If its on your mind in that situation then maybe your situation is not as grave as you think it is. I envision that when I draw my gun someone is almost on top of me or has a gun pointed at me or actively breaking in my house with my wife and kids inside. In those situations I'll be thinking about stopping that threat. If the BG dies in the process then I will not feel bad about taking a life. I would feel justified. __________________ Florida Concealed Carry.com Know The Law Be Prepared Stay Safe

July 1st, 2008, 12:40 AM	#27
sgtD Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Kansas Posts: 1,429	If it's them or me, or if it's them or mine, I'm gonna do everything within my power to make sure it's them. That's the Law of Nature and I have no problem with it whatsoever. __________________ When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

July 1st, 2008, 12:46 AM	#28
Tubby45 Distinguished Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: In the reloading room Posts: 1,906	I am not willing to kill, just prepared to do so if needed to live myself. __________________ Freakshow Manufacturing LLC Licensed 07 FFL with Class II SOT pending California CFLC compliant

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July 1st, 2008, 12:19 AM	#25
Eagleks Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 401	Ok... I'm going to try to make this short. I'll do my best, because I really don't want to get into a lot of details, it's late. I have been there, it did happen, and it turned out well. A person who had a "hit" put out on them (no, I'm not joking) because when they got divorced, they took with them evidence which could convict several people of killing an LEO (let's say.. can't explain further) as well as some other people. Enough said. They were under protection, but ... many people had tried to get to them and got past that protection. They carried a gun, but very unfamiliar with it and said "I don't think I could actually ever kill someone, I'ld rather let them kill me then to have to live with that". We had some very long talks, about the "scum bags" I had dealt with and how these types of guys, could kill you for money and never think a damn thing about it. Period. Why would anyone give up their life for someone like that ? And, if you don't kill them.... they WILL kill you. We won't miss the scum bag. A couple of men had already been arrested, and a couple of the people supposed to be protecting them had been killed ... Several things occurred... and continued to talk about it. I continued to stress the same thing. Do you think they care if you are dead ?? Obviously they don't care about YOUR life..... so, why would you not protect yourself.... they are putting themselves into that situation in wanting to kill you, and you aren't putting yourself intentionally into this situation. One night, a guy enters (I won't say how, but it was a dramatic entry) ... had gotten past the 'protection' outside.... and there was an LEO in the house , but who was in the bathroom. The guy entered with 2 guns in his hands, ready to shoot. They pulled their gun and emptied it into the guy, and the LEO (after hearing the entry & first couple of shots) rushed in and emptied their gun into the guy as well. He was DEAD. The entire time she was shooting this guy, she was yelling "HE TOLD ME I HAD TO DO IT"... over and over. Afterwards, they asked ... who is "HE".. and what did he tell you that you had to do. She explained, to shoot if she had to in order to save her life. She told them it was me. I got asked ... did you tell them this ? I told them .. YES, I did. They congratuated me and said it was really good that I had convinced them, because if it had not been for her shooting, she would have been dead.... it was their shot that killed him... (2nd bullet they figured). She hated that she had to shoot & kill them, but was glad that she had. She was glad that she was alive and knew she wouldn't be if she had not shot them. She now realized what I was saying..... and thanked me for convincing her... she needed to defend her life. She then knew... he would have killed her... for REAL... if she had not shot him first. Once that sinks in, the regret goes away much quicker. Don't know if that would hold true for others, it all depends upon the situation and what occurs, as well as the person involved. But today, they are alive to talk about it.

July 1st, 2008, 12:34 AM	#26
Eagleks Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 401	I might add..... all of the BG's were caught, convicted and went to prison for life.