riverkeeper

Dave Grossman's books, ON KILLING, suggest that huge numbers of soldiers in war have not attempted to kill the enemy ... killing in the abstract for them is against their basic morality.

The no-kill comments by most folks who utter them is I believe based on a similar, but uncontemplated knee jerk morality.

No-kill individuals are neither better or worse than us ... just uneducated or inexperienced or dreamer-utopians.

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Newer Testament... Kill or Get Killed 1976/1987
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CR2008

If you really really really wanted to get technical... what is a "kill" and "no kill" individual on a fundamental level? For example, if you were a commander that had orders to take out enemy in the hills and a pilot bombs them, was it the commander or pilot that takes greater responsibility? How about the tax payers that go towards training, weapons or the factory workers who prime the bullets etc?

I actually can't see the difference and they are the same to me on a fundamental level.

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Rob72

Yeah. 20 guys started at Normandy, went through the Bulge and into Berlin. Everyone else was shooting into the dirt.

Grossman has some valid observations. His thesis however, has been discredited. There are far better psychologically oriented texts approaching the subject.

jahwarrior72

if you carry a gun, you should be ready to accept the fact that what you're carrying was designed to do one thing: to kill. it wasn't designed to "stop a threat," or de-escalate a situation. it's for ending life. period. this is why i chose not to carry one for so many years. making the choice to carry now doesn't mean i want to use it; it just means now that i accept the fact that it's within the realm of possibility that i might have to. if i ever feel the need to draw down on someone, it won't be to intimidate him, or to scare him off; it will be because i feel my life, or the lives of my loved ones, are in imminent danger. and G*D help anyone who forces me to make that decision.

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gwhall57

I would only shoot to stop an attacker; I'm not in the killing business. That's why I always sort of ponder the people who preach the "2 COM + 1 to the head" gospel. I can see the 2 COM part, it's the "+ 1 to the head" part that makes me think they are focused more on killing someone instead of stopping an attack...

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cwblanco

Being that I am a rural volunteer firefighter there is some truth in what you say. However, I have never known of any in my area being involved in starting a fire, and most have fought them enough to get it out of their system, and they dread the thought of having to get up at night, and then to linger for long times to assure the final put out -- and then to go to their day time job the following day.

What you say is not much different from the young cop or young soldier who secretly craves an engagement, but then his good sense prevails, and although he will do his duty, in the final analysis he had just as soon avoid being in harm's way so that he can live to see another day.

Metro 40

And how do bullets "stop" people? By maiming and killing them, that's how. A head shot is probably one of the most effective shots you can make to "stop" someone. If the situation is so grave that you have to pull your pistol, you had better make the most effective shot you can, and stop worrying about politically correct BS. If you carry a gun, you carry an instrument of death. You are indeed potentially in the "killing business," whether you realize it or not.

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buckeyeLCPL

Getting into a set 2+1 mode can be detrimental, because it gets you into a pattern, but what if that pattern doesn't work? My training has had a fair amount of "failure drills" in it, but also incorporates other shooting sequences so you don't get so focused on a pattern. A lot of people can't recall how many shots they fire in a SD situation until the brass is counted up, shot to stop the threat, period. 2+1 will often times work for that, but sometimes it wont.

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Eagleks

You are guys are some times assuming a LOT.... a woman shot her husband 5 times in the head with a .38, point blank range.... they were interviewing him on the news. Maybe he didn't have much of a brain to start out with, but he survived it. Admittedly, it's got to be a rare case.

sgtD

When I was a teenager, we had a guy at our church who a was a volunteer fireman. He set the church on fire. So it does happen. Thankfully, not often.

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