Required reading for the fight ahead... - Page 2

bandit383 · November 17th, 2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hopyard

This quote from the OP makes this thread overtly political to start with.

"Obama's new website clearly lays out his planned assault on freedom."

The assertion that he or any elected official plans an assault on freedom is a politically extreme statement.

I just want to suggest that elections have consequences. And that concealed carry enthusiasts with very strongly held conservative views on other issues, try to separate their other conservative viewpoints from 2A advocacy.

There are many centrists, moderates, libertarians and liberals, (it really isn't a dirty word no matter what Rush says) who hold strong pro-2A views. Offending them (no one has offended me, I'm speaking in generalities) doesn't promote the cause.

I've had a few private messages from folks who have indicated that they don't voice their opinion here because the forum members generally have a conservative viewpoint, and some would rather not post than risk getting a little heat.

Great info...but also agree with Hop...Cons versus Libs, with a little of 2A mixed in. But the jist is really not 2A.

Rick

ExactlyMyPoint · November 17th, 2008, 06:18 PM

Another great resource is the movie Thank You For Smoking.

Certain groups know how to frame arguments and certain groups don't. Honestly, you don't win political debates by being logical. If you are on a talk show, in a debate, etc, you need to frame your argument as noted by the OP. There have been several postings about how to reframe (the gun) argument. Reframing examples:

Old: Guns kill people
New: Guns save lives

Old: We need reasonable gun laws
New: Why do you want to restrict my freedoms

Old: Only criminals have guns
New: I need a gun for protection against criminals

Etc.

I remember seeing more examples to this effect, but could not find them. It would behoove us all to learn how to reframe our arguments to put the other side on the defensive.

Mikey · November 17th, 2008, 06:49 PM

That was a great movie!!

Rightwing · November 17th, 2008, 09:02 PM

Seems like a timely topic, with both reasonable and obvious content. Thanks for the lesson on apologetics.

Gun Loving Liveral · November 21st, 2008, 04:11 AM

In response to hopyard I am indeed one of the liberals who supports the 2nd Amendment. Indeed, I strongly support the entire Constitution. If anyone assumes only conservatives support gun rights they risk pushing away those of us who do not belive it accurate to call themselves conservative but who enjoy shooting, have CC permits, etc. And those of us liberals who have strong libertarian ideas often are gun owners.
I am sorry to hear some members on the forum who are less than conservative have refrained from showing their colors. Come on out (pun intended)and proudly declare your views, so long as it is in a civilized manner. I am pleased to say I have never felt unwelcome here proclaiming myself a Gun Loving Liberal (which is what I intended to type, but like now, it was late at night and I did not notice I had typed 'Liveral" instead.
I try hard not to insult anyone's politcal leaning here as we all share an interest in firearms and continuing to affirm the Constitutional right to continue to posess and use firearms.

AutoFan · November 22nd, 2008, 02:51 AM

I'm not a conservative, but I find myself on the side of the people that want to let me keep my guns and our family's hard earned money. Oddly that isn't the party that trumpets how liberal it is.

November 17th, 2008, 06:18 PM	#12
ExactlyMyPoint Distinguished Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,636	Another great resource is the movie Thank You For Smoking. Certain groups know how to frame arguments and certain groups don't. Honestly, you don't win political debates by being logical. If you are on a talk show, in a debate, etc, you need to frame your argument as noted by the OP. There have been several postings about how to reframe (the gun) argument. Reframing examples: Old: Guns kill people New: Guns save lives Old: We need reasonable gun laws New: Why do you want to restrict my freedoms Old: Only criminals have guns New: I need a gun for protection against criminals Etc. I remember seeing more examples to this effect, but could not find them. It would behoove us all to learn how to reframe our arguments to put the other side on the defensive. __________________ - Let me explain. No. There is too much. Let me summarize. - Doing my part to create a huge carbon footprint - Be still, and know that I am God; Psalms 46:10 - You are God and that's just the way it is

November 17th, 2008, 09:02 PM	#14
Rightwing Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 41	Seems like a timely topic, with both reasonable and obvious content. Thanks for the lesson on apologetics. __________________ "You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body." CS Lewis S&W .41 Mag - CZ RAMI .40 - Colt DS - Ruger Single Six - Buckmark-Beretta 21A - S&W 351PD 22 Mag--- Plenty Of Long Guns--- Dry Powder and RCBS.

November 21st, 2008, 04:11 AM	#15
Gun Loving Liveral Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bennington, Oklahoma Posts: 121	Gun ownership does cross party lines In response to hopyard I am indeed one of the liberals who supports the 2nd Amendment. Indeed, I strongly support the entire Constitution. If anyone assumes only conservatives support gun rights they risk pushing away those of us who do not belive it accurate to call themselves conservative but who enjoy shooting, have CC permits, etc. And those of us liberals who have strong libertarian ideas often are gun owners. I am sorry to hear some members on the forum who are less than conservative have refrained from showing their colors. Come on out (pun intended)and proudly declare your views, so long as it is in a civilized manner. I am pleased to say I have never felt unwelcome here proclaiming myself a Gun Loving Liberal (which is what I intended to type, but like now, it was late at night and I did not notice I had typed 'Liveral" instead. I try hard not to insult anyone's politcal leaning here as we all share an interest in firearms and continuing to affirm the Constitutional right to continue to posess and use firearms. __________________ In Oklahoma, even we liberals like guns!

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November 17th, 2008, 06:49 PM	#13
Mikey Ex Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: TX Posts: 310	That was a great movie!!

November 22nd, 2008, 02:51 AM	#16
AutoFan Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Sunshine State Posts: 954	I'm not a conservative, but I find myself on the side of the people that want to let me keep my guns and our family's hard earned money. Oddly that isn't the party that trumpets how liberal it is.