You guys are good at these.

Euclidean · January 11th, 2006, 11:49 PM

My firearms novice friend, well he's not so much of a novice any more, but he's not yet as dedicated as I am (hehe) is looking for a rifle.

I will summarize his case and keep him fairly anonymous. He splits his time between a gun friendly state, where the rifle will live, and a non gun friendly state, where he'd rather not be caught dead with it. Other factors such as his place of employment and their policies are in effect here.

Realize this is a guy who by some miracle from God sees the inherent value of a couple of guns and enjoys them mildly. I can see that, there are things I enjoy somewhat but am not committed to beyond a couple of token investments. This isn't a guy who is applying for a C&R any time soon, and just doesn't get excited or at least interested when you talk about your old Webley.

He thinks I'm a gun nut. But only because he's yet to meet a real gun nut.

I'm telling you that to give you perspective. His irons of choice are an XD9 and a Winchester 1300 Defender. I can't help but admit I had a hand in those choices...

Yeah I know, no .22.

Anyway, now he wants a rifle. I gave him the pat answer to get a .22 caliber rifle, because honestly if I was only going to have one rifle, that'd be it. And in his situation, I can actually agree with his other choices for social work.

Anyway I think I've talked him into getting a 10/22 for its own sake, but he's still interested in that Holy Grail of all purpose rifles. I told him that was all well and good, but the fact of the matter was an all purpose rifle by its very nature is going to be lacking somewhat when it comes to specific applications due to its very nature. He refined his criteria and sent me a PM detailing what he wanted it for and why.

So here we go.

-Basic format is a self loading rifle that uses a detachable box magazine.

-"Normal" chambering. Think .223 or .30-06 or something else relatively common, in a light to middle of the road round. .204 Ruger or .458 Lott chambering need apply for instance.

-$500 hard upper price limit. He might budge on this a little. He's got money if he'll just save it.

-Synthetic furniture preferred

-No milsurps or "mainstream military format" rifles (not sure what that means but I can guess). That right there makes things difficult.

-Modern, new production rifle with widely available parts/accessories.

-Optics may be considered at some point but not yet.

-Intended purpose: Mostly fun, 200 yards and less target shooting, Katrina aftermath type scenario

Now I can tell you what he likes... he likes black evil looking guns that could feasibly be used as props in a Matrix movie. That's his style.

I thought about it and gave a couple of non recommendations that break one or more criteria, like the SKS, or an AK47 clone with synthetic furniture, etc.

The only thing I could really think of that seemed along his criteria was the Remington 7400 in .308 or .30-06 with the synthetic furniture. I've seen them in the $450ish range. It meets all the criteria.

Later I thought perhaps the SU-16 Alpha might be in that price range, but thing is I don't have full confidence in either of these suggestions.

I had also considered telling him to check into a pistol caliber carbine of some sort. There should be something in his price range and since he really just wants something fun that could be used to fend off crazed looters and rioters in a pinch, it might make sense for him.

It's an interesting mental excercise, honestly. I think if he could find one an SKS-D would please him to no end, but he doesn't want an SKS or AK47 type format so it's back to square one.

P95Carry · January 11th, 2006, 11:53 PM

Hmmm - the restrictions narrow the field almost too much. It's the ''semi'' bit that makes for prob's.

I have yet to come up with a suggestion but feel that Class3 or rfurtcamp between them might expand the options a bit.

CLASS3NH · January 12th, 2006, 12:13 AM

Ok............how bout a Remington 7615P 223 Special Purpose ...........(looks like a 7600) carbine length.........can also utilize the M16 type mag..if need be.. pump, so there's no wasting of ammo.......
http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm

7600 is available in 308 as well same basic config:
http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7600.htm

BTW.......we sell em ........AND I've handled em......they look and feel REAL GOOD in the hands..

WorldPax · January 12th, 2006, 12:42 AM

Sounds like your friend and I are searching for the same rifle.

I've narrowed it down to either building a decent little SKS, no heavy mods, and I don't expect it to be a tack driver.

A Saiga .308

or a Remington 7600

I wish Keltec made the SU in a 308 or 7.62, I'd buy three of them.

CLASS3NH · January 12th, 2006, 12:51 AM

I was going to suggest a Siaga 7.62x39 rifle, but we have trouble with them. They seem to find their way back to the store, via repair for FTF or FTE problems.. There is a nice 410 made by Siaga, seems to work really well........good close quarters gun, for indoor use.. or shoot 410 slugs (41 cal slug) for outdoor use

older gunner · January 12th, 2006, 02:02 AM

As I read the specs, I thought of the Remington 7400 also. That would be my recommendation. Good luck.

rfurtkamp · January 12th, 2006, 03:16 AM

Nothing I can think of given his specific list of requirements.

I'd look at regular ol' AK, possibly in .223, if he wants something in that price range.

rocky · January 12th, 2006, 09:32 AM

If he wants a evil , black rifle but no mil. guns, seems like he doesn't know what he wants. SKS's and such are cheap, and you can put em in diffrent poly stocks and such. The Kel tec seems like a decent .223.

Geezer · January 12th, 2006, 10:57 AM

What about the mini 14 or mini 30 ??

Kompact9 · January 12th, 2006, 11:14 AM

Euc,

IMO, a .308 bolt action (reliable, versatile, and lot of ammo choices) in something like the Howa 1500 Hbar, Remington 700 HBar, or Savage 10 in HBar. Good shooters all and I believe all come in synthetic stocks (black or dark grey). The detachable magazine requirement ups the price though...

January 11th, 2006, 11:49 PM	#1
Euclidean VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 3,213	You guys are good at these. My firearms novice friend, well he's not so much of a novice any more, but he's not yet as dedicated as I am (hehe) is looking for a rifle. I will summarize his case and keep him fairly anonymous. He splits his time between a gun friendly state, where the rifle will live, and a non gun friendly state, where he'd rather not be caught dead with it. Other factors such as his place of employment and their policies are in effect here. Realize this is a guy who by some miracle from God sees the inherent value of a couple of guns and enjoys them mildly. I can see that, there are things I enjoy somewhat but am not committed to beyond a couple of token investments. This isn't a guy who is applying for a C&R any time soon, and just doesn't get excited or at least interested when you talk about your old Webley. He thinks I'm a gun nut. But only because he's yet to meet a real gun nut. I'm telling you that to give you perspective. His irons of choice are an XD9 and a Winchester 1300 Defender. I can't help but admit I had a hand in those choices... Yeah I know, no .22. Anyway, now he wants a rifle. I gave him the pat answer to get a .22 caliber rifle, because honestly if I was only going to have one rifle, that'd be it. And in his situation, I can actually agree with his other choices for social work. Anyway I think I've talked him into getting a 10/22 for its own sake, but he's still interested in that Holy Grail of all purpose rifles. I told him that was all well and good, but the fact of the matter was an all purpose rifle by its very nature is going to be lacking somewhat when it comes to specific applications due to its very nature. He refined his criteria and sent me a PM detailing what he wanted it for and why. So here we go. -Basic format is a self loading rifle that uses a detachable box magazine. -"Normal" chambering. Think .223 or .30-06 or something else relatively common, in a light to middle of the road round. .204 Ruger or .458 Lott chambering need apply for instance. -$500 hard upper price limit. He might budge on this a little. He's got money if he'll just save it. -Synthetic furniture preferred -No milsurps or "mainstream military format" rifles (not sure what that means but I can guess). That right there makes things difficult. -Modern, new production rifle with widely available parts/accessories. -Optics may be considered at some point but not yet. -Intended purpose: Mostly fun, 200 yards and less target shooting, Katrina aftermath type scenario Now I can tell you what he likes... he likes black evil looking guns that could feasibly be used as props in a Matrix movie. That's his style. I thought about it and gave a couple of non recommendations that break one or more criteria, like the SKS, or an AK47 clone with synthetic furniture, etc. The only thing I could really think of that seemed along his criteria was the Remington 7400 in .308 or .30-06 with the synthetic furniture. I've seen them in the $450ish range. It meets all the criteria. Later I thought perhaps the SU-16 Alpha might be in that price range, but thing is I don't have full confidence in either of these suggestions. I had also considered telling him to check into a pistol caliber carbine of some sort. There should be something in his price range and since he really just wants something fun that could be used to fend off crazed looters and rioters in a pinch, it might make sense for him. It's an interesting mental excercise, honestly. I think if he could find one an SKS-D would please him to no end, but he doesn't want an SKS or AK47 type format so it's back to square one. __________________ I am The Armed Educator.

January 11th, 2006, 11:53 PM	#2
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,366	Hmmm - the restrictions narrow the field almost too much. It's the ''semi'' bit that makes for prob's. I have yet to come up with a suggestion but feel that Class3 or rfurtcamp between them might expand the options a bit. __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

January 12th, 2006, 12:13 AM	#3
CLASS3NH VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southern New Hampshire Posts: 2,565	Ok............how bout a Remington 7615P 223 Special Purpose ...........(looks like a 7600) carbine length.........can also utilize the M16 type mag..if need be.. pump, so there's no wasting of ammo....... http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm 7600 is available in 308 as well same basic config: http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7600.htm BTW.......we sell em ........AND I've handled em......they look and feel REAL GOOD in the hands.. __________________ Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll

January 12th, 2006, 12:42 AM	#4
WorldPax Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 274	Sounds like your friend and I are searching for the same rifle. I've narrowed it down to either building a decent little SKS, no heavy mods, and I don't expect it to be a tack driver. A Saiga .308 or a Remington 7600 I wish Keltec made the SU in a 308 or 7.62, I'd buy three of them. __________________ Pax Tulsa, OK

January 12th, 2006, 12:51 AM	#5
CLASS3NH VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southern New Hampshire Posts: 2,565	I was going to suggest a Siaga 7.62x39 rifle, but we have trouble with them. They seem to find their way back to the store, via repair for FTF or FTE problems.. There is a nice 410 made by Siaga, seems to work really well........good close quarters gun, for indoor use.. or shoot 410 slugs (41 cal slug) for outdoor use __________________ Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll

January 12th, 2006, 02:02 AM	#6
older gunner Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Florida Panhandle Posts: 612	As I read the specs, I thought of the Remington 7400 also. That would be my recommendation. Good luck.

January 12th, 2006, 03:16 AM	#7
rfurtkamp Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pocatello, Idaho Posts: 940	Nothing I can think of given his specific list of requirements. I'd look at regular ol' AK, possibly in .223, if he wants something in that price range. __________________ Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.

January 12th, 2006, 09:32 AM	#8
rocky Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MI Posts: 11,767	If he wants a evil , black rifle but no mil. guns, seems like he doesn't know what he wants. SKS's and such are cheap, and you can put em in diffrent poly stocks and such. The Kel tec seems like a decent .223.

January 12th, 2006, 10:57 AM	#9
Geezer Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Mineral Wells Texas Posts: 348	What about the mini 14 or mini 30 ??

January 12th, 2006, 11:14 AM	#10
Kompact9 Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 427	Euc, IMO, a .308 bolt action (reliable, versatile, and lot of ammo choices) in something like the Howa 1500 Hbar, Remington 700 HBar, or Savage 10 in HBar. Good shooters all and I believe all come in synthetic stocks (black or dark grey). The detachable magazine requirement ups the price though... __________________ noli nothis permittere te terere...

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