Failure to fire question

Chance · January 14th, 2006, 06:10 AM

Ok, I'll hopefully be taking my wife to the range for the first time today or tomorrow. I already plan on getting her into a basic handgun course before she even tries for a CCW, but I wanted to get her over to the range so that she had a bit better of an idea what it was she was getting into. I was going through some of the basics, when I noticed a gap in my own education. I was telling her about the concept of a failure to fire and that if she pulled the trigger and nothing happened, to just pause for 30-40 seconds with th gun still pointing downrange. Well, she asked, "Then what?" and honestly, I'm not sure.

I was trained in the military how to load, handle, and shoot safely. But when it came to problems, I was taught to "Raise my non-firing hand and wait for help" So my question is, what the heck do you do if a bullet does not fire when it is supposed to?

acparmed · January 14th, 2006, 06:25 AM

The simple answer Chance is:
Tap
Rack
Shoot if necessary.

Tap the bottom of the magazine sharply to be sure it's seated.
Rack the slide to the rear to eject the bad round and load a fresh one.
Reaquire the sights and shoot if necessary.

That's the answer for what to do in a gunfight.

There are many other things you need to learn in the event of a failure to fire. For example, what caused the failure? Was is a bad primer? Do you have a 'stovepipe' jam? Do you have a double feed? Did the round just fail to go into battery?

All of these scenarios have an answer as to what you should do. But they all come down to, Tap, Rack, Bang.

I'll allow some of our more erudite professors of things that go bang to explain further, as I'm sure they will.

Bud White · January 14th, 2006, 07:57 AM

The above post pretty much hit it

I dont wait for 30-40 seconds thoug maybe 10-15 then tap rack the slide if the offending cartridge or stoppage isnt cleared with that then go from there.

rocky · January 14th, 2006, 09:48 AM

Tap-rack -bang is good advice. Just be sure to inform her, or watch carefully for a squib load.

Redneck Repairs · January 14th, 2006, 09:52 AM

tap rack bang is illistrated well by the video oregonshooter posted at http://www.combatcarry.com/vbulletin...ighlight=drill

hope that helps

HotGuns · January 14th, 2006, 10:11 AM

Ive been taught TAP BUMP RACK

Tap the magazine

BUMP the back of the slide with your off hand to make sure its seated, and then recock and shoot...

IF that dont work, then you RACK...

Practiced enough it is almost automatic and quicker. Many times the slide simply fails to go into battery for one reason or another. A simple bump to the back of the slide cures it.

Failing that, you dump the offending round and start from scratch.

P95Carry · January 14th, 2006, 10:54 AM

Sound advice given.

The likelehood of a misfire actually going off delayed is very remote indeed but because it ''might'' happen, that drill is to allow time, just in case.

In combat terms this is obviously no use at all - so the totally miniscule risk must be taken, with clearance drills as folks have described.

Kompact9 · January 14th, 2006, 04:11 PM

I believe it's rimfire ammunition that you have to worry about "cooking" off after the primer has been struck. Centerfire ammuntion, like P95 says, is fairly stable. It'll fire when struck, or a real hammer is the next thing that'll set it off (maybe). The obligatory wait at the range is the safe way to go, IMHO, then eject the round into the spent brass barrel if they have one or far away as possible, while keeping the gun pointed downrange. Be safe...

BigEd63 · January 14th, 2006, 06:45 PM

Also be careful about that when shooting old milsurp ammo.

I've had some noticable hang fires from old .303 and some 7.62x54r.

Chance · January 14th, 2006, 09:31 PM

Ok, that was just the sort of info I was looking for. Thank you all.

I'm also starting to think the wait time was also taught in the military to make sure people stopped for a moment and thought about what they were doing, rather than just immediately turn to the instructor and say "It don't work, see..."

Fortunately we went through a hundred rounds and no failures to fire. A couple of failures to load, it appears that my CZ does not prefer flatter nosed bullets. A quick re-rack of the slide and no more problem, but something I am going to have to keep an eye on.

January 14th, 2006, 06:10 AM	#1
Chance Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 34	Failure to fire question Ok, I'll hopefully be taking my wife to the range for the first time today or tomorrow. I already plan on getting her into a basic handgun course before she even tries for a CCW, but I wanted to get her over to the range so that she had a bit better of an idea what it was she was getting into. I was going through some of the basics, when I noticed a gap in my own education. I was telling her about the concept of a failure to fire and that if she pulled the trigger and nothing happened, to just pause for 30-40 seconds with th gun still pointing downrange. Well, she asked, "Then what?" and honestly, I'm not sure. I was trained in the military how to load, handle, and shoot safely. But when it came to problems, I was taught to "Raise my non-firing hand and wait for help" So my question is, what the heck do you do if a bullet does not fire when it is supposed to?

January 14th, 2006, 06:25 AM	#2
acparmed 1952 - 2006 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 1,371	The simple answer Chance is: Tap Rack Shoot if necessary. Tap the bottom of the magazine sharply to be sure it's seated. Rack the slide to the rear to eject the bad round and load a fresh one. Reaquire the sights and shoot if necessary. That's the answer for what to do in a gunfight. There are many other things you need to learn in the event of a failure to fire. For example, what caused the failure? Was is a bad primer? Do you have a 'stovepipe' jam? Do you have a double feed? Did the round just fail to go into battery? All of these scenarios have an answer as to what you should do. But they all come down to, Tap, Rack, Bang. I'll allow some of our more erudite professors of things that go bang to explain further, as I'm sure they will. __________________ Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences "I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ****** are and can kill them." ~George Patton DE OPPRESSO LIBER**

January 14th, 2006, 10:54 AM	#7
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,366	Sound advice given. The likelehood of a misfire actually going off delayed is very remote indeed but because it ''might'' happen, that drill is to allow time, just in case. In combat terms this is obviously no use at all - so the totally miniscule risk must be taken, with clearance drills as folks have described. __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

January 14th, 2006, 04:11 PM	#8
Kompact9 Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 427	I believe it's rimfire ammunition that you have to worry about "cooking" off after the primer has been struck. Centerfire ammuntion, like P95 says, is fairly stable. It'll fire when struck, or a real hammer is the next thing that'll set it off (maybe). The obligatory wait at the range is the safe way to go, IMHO, then eject the round into the spent brass barrel if they have one or far away as possible, while keeping the gun pointed downrange. Be safe... __________________ noli nothis permittere te terere...

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January 14th, 2006, 07:57 AM	#3
Bud White VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 17,476	The above post pretty much hit it I dont wait for 30-40 seconds thoug maybe 10-15 then tap rack the slide if the offending cartridge or stoppage isnt cleared with that then go from there.

January 14th, 2006, 09:48 AM	#4
rocky Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MI Posts: 11,767	Tap-rack -bang is good advice. Just be sure to inform her, or watch carefully for a squib load.

January 14th, 2006, 09:52 AM	#5
Redneck Repairs VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,141	tap rack bang is illistrated well by the video oregonshooter posted at http://www.combatcarry.com/vbulletin...ighlight=drill hope that helps

January 14th, 2006, 10:11 AM	#6
HotGuns Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 5,177	Ive been taught TAP BUMP RACK Tap the magazine BUMP the back of the slide with your off hand to make sure its seated, and then recock and shoot... IF that dont work, then you RACK... Practiced enough it is almost automatic and quicker. Many times the slide simply fails to go into battery for one reason or another. A simple bump to the back of the slide cures it. Failing that, you dump the offending round and start from scratch.

January 14th, 2006, 06:45 PM	#9
BigEd63 Ex Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts: 318	Also be careful about that when shooting old milsurp ammo. I've had some noticable hang fires from old .303 and some 7.62x54r.

January 14th, 2006, 09:31 PM	#10
Chance Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 34	Ok, that was just the sort of info I was looking for. Thank you all. I'm also starting to think the wait time was also taught in the military to make sure people stopped for a moment and thought about what they were doing, rather than just immediately turn to the instructor and say "It don't work, see..." Fortunately we went through a hundred rounds and no failures to fire. A couple of failures to load, it appears that my CZ does not prefer flatter nosed bullets. A quick re-rack of the slide and no more problem, but something I am going to have to keep an eye on.