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| General Firearm Discussion The place for general firearms and shooting discussions that may not fit well in the forums focusing on concealed carry. |
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#1 |
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Member
![]() Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Clayton NC
Posts: 321
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Top 10 Combat Rifles
Anyone catch this on the Military Channel last night?
You can see the list here. M-16 is #2, and AK-47 is #1. When they were talking about the M-16, they mentioned it was developed by Eugene Stoner. I couldn't help but think that if I'm in Vietnam in the 60's, I'm not so sure I would trust my life to a gun designed by someone called "stoner" :) |
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#2 |
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Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 80
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Yeah, I have seen that before. It is a pretty interesting show.
I also like your pun...Stoner...There was a lot of them carrying M-16s over in Nam wasn't there!
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Current handguns: Glock models 19, 22C, 23, 27, 29, & 36; Kimber Pro CDP and Polymer Custom; Kahr PM9 & CW9; S&W models 6906, 386PD, Taurus 85 Ultralite Ti; Browning Buckmark; Former handguns: S&W 4"686, 4" 620 & Sigma .380, Taurus 617 Ti, Kimber Pro Eclipse, Walther P22, Glock models 30 & 33. |
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#3 |
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VIP Member
![]() Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 2,135
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Yeah, I've seen it before, about a year ago or so. I think the military channel has a youtube page that you can watch some of the other Top Ten episodes.
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#4 |
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VIP Member
![]() Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: texas
Posts: 7,357
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I think they look at the ratings by how many of the guns are used and produced etc.The AK47 is used by almost every third world country due to it's ruggedness
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Handguns in my collection: Colt 1911 Combat Commander XSE, Springfield Armory 1911A1 SS Mil Spec, RIA 1911 compact, LAR Grizzly 44 magnum, S&W M&P 45 compact, Sig 229 40S&W, Sig Pro 2022 40S&W, Sig P6 9mm, Springfield Armory XD 9mm, S&W 6906 9mm, Kel Tec P11 9mm, S&W 22A 22LR |
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#5 |
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Member
![]() Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Tn, formaly Baghdad
Posts: 473
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Yea believe me, come over here and you will see about a million AK's
it seems like everybody and their momma has one.. That why their numbers are so high. Dont worry though, now the iraqi's are starting to carry m16's. so undoubtably the numbers will go up on the 16's before too much longer. I could go on and on with that issue and other issues, but thats another day .. |
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#6 |
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Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 306
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AK47 is one of the greatest combat, if not the greatest of all times.
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__________________________ Does My Wallet Make Me Look Fat? It shouldn't because Obama is taking all my money.
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#7 |
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Member
![]() Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Midlothian, VA
Posts: 454
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Hard to believe the M-1 was topped by the M-16.... I fired an AK-MS once in Germany in the late 70's during a "Know Thy Enemy's Weapons" day at the range. The sucker went "bang" every time I pulled the trigger. This was after I had picked it up off a tarp on the ground, where snow and mud had gotten into the receiver. Wiped it out, shoved in a mag, and rocked and rolled... My Army-issue M-16 would not have worked as well under those conditions.
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"Bad spellers of the world - untie!" DAV Life member, NRA Life member Springfield XD 9mm Sub-Compact Taurus PT111 Millennium Pro 9mm |
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#8 | |
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Senior Moderator
![]() Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 8,430
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Quote:
Just because it is the most widely produced or distributed rifle in the world does not make it the "best". Best for what? Zero to 300 yards? Rapid fire? Reliability? Its a relativley short range gun that shoots fast. It's not known for its accuracy. In the role that it typically encounters it does well, but so do many others. Having shot both extensively, I'd take the more accurate AR. While its true that all rifles have advantages and disadvantages when compared to each other,I'll take the rifle with the edge in accuracy because that it what matters most when you are lining up the sights on someone that is shooting at you. With that being said,I realize that the AR/AK debate could go on forever. ![]()
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AR. CHL Instr. Live your life well enough that the Preacher wont have to lie at your funeral. |
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#9 |
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Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 209
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Opinions/Options for things that aren't on the list?
What would you add?
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"Words can be as lethal as bullets; Choose them carefully, Aim them well & Use them sparingly." |
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#10 | |
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Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Amarillo, Texas
Posts: 755
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Quote:
P.S. While I was in Vietnam we were issued the new M-16. At that time they were nothing but jammo-matics, and we cursed them. However, after 45 years of development and cleaning out the bugs, it is a nice weapon. I love my AR-15. I also have my SKS that I brought home from Vietnam. It is the semi-automatic pre-cursor to the AK-47 and shoots the same round. It will shoot anything anywhere. However, I still much prefer the AR-15 as a day in and day out rifle. |
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#11 |
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Member
![]() Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Tn, formaly Baghdad
Posts: 473
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I watched a show not too long ago, in it was a comparision of the ak and the m4, it was a show to decide which weapon OVERALL was the best.
They had accuracy, most reliable, longest effective range and so forth, needless to say the M4 won, dont get me wrong, the ak is a fine weapon. But for todays fighting, a weapon needs to do more than just shuck rounds out. Therefor, without a doubt I would choose my handy dandy M4 |
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#12 |
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Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fairfax Station Virginia
Posts: 81
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I have used both in combat (Vietnam) and can tell you that, at that time (67-68) and at that place, there was no contest. The AK was by far the better weapon. Although I had qualified as expert with the M-16 in the States and really liked it, once in combat I learned to hate it because it would jam at the slightest provocation. Sometimes it was a little dirt. Sometimes a little powder residue. And sometimes no apparent reason. Certainly it was accurate, but in that environment the accuracy was useless. Too, most of our troops abilities were far more limiting that the rifle's accuracy. I thought then and think now that the early M-16s paid a reliability price for their accuracy and that the price was way too high.
I am certain that today's M4 is much better than the first generation M-16, but I think that if I was in an environment where accuracy was paramount I would be looking at a bolt action .308 or similar. Meanwhile the AK is simple to use, never jams and puts out the bullets albeit not to pinpoint accuracy. It has my vote for #1. |
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#13 | |
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Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Amarillo, Texas
Posts: 755
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Quote:
P.S. I suppose that my Vietnam jamming experience has soured my enthusiasm for any pistol that has any history of jamming whatsoever. Hence, I stay away from 1911's, except for collector purposes (regardless of brand) because there jamming experience, however slight. Not so on my Sig, Ruger, XD, and Glock which have never jammed.
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Live every day so that you can, with a clear conscience, look all men in their eyes and tell them to go to hell. |
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#14 | ||
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Member
![]() Join Date: May 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 368
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Quote:
Yes, AK's were noticeably more reliable than the early M16's. However, due to substantial improvements, later models like the M4 have closed the gap in regard to reliability. There's little difference if any between the two today. An M16 and bolt action .308 are apples and oranges. The M16 is designed for combat, whereas a bolt action .308 is geared for sniper duty.
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#15 |
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Distinguished Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,725
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In 1967, I traded in my M16 and got a M14 and it work every time.
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NRA PATRON LIFE |
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#16 | |
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Ex Member
![]() Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 37
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Quote:
But if I want to bump that distance up the AK-74 is more ideal. it shoots near the same accuracy as an AR-15 and has the reliability upgraded from an AK-47! Less kick than one too!! |
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#17 | |
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Ex Member
![]() Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 37
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Quote:
The reasoning on reliability is due to the crammed in parts on the AR-15. The AK rifles you take apart and see how simple and open the system is. The AK thus is less prone to jams due to most grunge/dirt also a scratch or 2 in the internals won't cause much harm or problems unlike a AR-15... So I have little confidence in the thought that the AR has bridged the gap... |
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#18 |
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Member
![]() Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Posts: 186
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The Kalashnakov is a reliable battle piece; of this there is no doubt. The main problem that beset the early M-16 rifles was a batch of W-W 760 ball propellant. This particular run left a great deal of residue in the forend of the rifle's gas tube, thus garnering the piece's "jam-a-matic" reputation. Once that batch had been exposed (and expended) the M-16 became more reliable. while there were other problems, the M-16 is generally a sound design.
Once there was a meeting of Kalashnikov and Stoner. They exchanged custom-made weapons and were friendly toward one another. I would have liked to have been a "fly on the wall" during their conversation! Scott |
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#19 |
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Distinguished Member
![]() Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ozarks
Posts: 1,639
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Forty years ago, I am pretty sure that we would have all traded our M-16s for M-14s due to our location in the flat land river delta. The M-14 was more reliable and accurate. So it really depends on your area of operations and the mission and the era being discussed.
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Amendment 2 advocate - Trying to explain the obvious to the oblivious. |
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#20 | |
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Ex Member
![]() Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 37
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