Question - Locked case..

TucAzRider · September 10th, 2009, 08:40 PM

Ok... This hit me in the way home.. Say you was in a state that didn't allow you to Conceal carry, let alone carry loaded in a car. Say also that you had a gun safe/vault in your car/truck. Say you was stopped and asked if you had any weapons on you and you answered "no"... Say the LEO spotted your safe bolted down and locked. If they asked you to open it, would you have to?

Also - say marshal law fell upon the states,.. If your guns was in your house and in a gun vault, how could they force you to open it???

automatic slim · September 10th, 2009, 09:49 PM

From a retired LEO. No you would not have to open any locked item in your vehicle and he can't legally search a secured item without your consent or a warrant. This goes for your glovebox, trunk, console even a locked briefcase.
He can search areas you have access to where a weapon can be concealed for his safety, such as between the seats, under the seats, etc. If he wants to do that, request to exit the vehicle.

Rob P. · September 10th, 2009, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by automatic slim

From a retired LEO. No you would not have to open any locked item in your vehicle and he can't legally search a secured item without your consent or a warrant. This goes for your glovebox, trunk, console even a locked briefcase.
He can search areas you have access to where a weapon can be concealed for his safety, such as between the seats, under the seats, etc. If he wants to do that, request to exit the vehicle.

Actually this is not quite true. And officer CAN search those places inside a vehicle where the registration/insurance paperwork may be located IF such paperwork is not presented when requested by the officer. This includes closed/locked areas of the vehicle including any cases or bags inside the car (even if the case/bag is in the locked trunk).

SIXTO · September 11th, 2009, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob P.

Actually this is not quite true. And officer CAN search those places inside a vehicle where the registration/insurance paperwork may be located IF such paperwork is not presented when requested by the officer. This includes closed/locked areas of the vehicle including any cases or bags inside the car (even if the case/bag is in the locked trunk).

Actually, not quite true again. That would be true only if there is an exigent circumstance, and registration could not be verified by some other means. Proof of insurance can be shown at a later time, I can't come up with an exigent circumstance where insurance must be shown immediately.

So 99 out of 100 times, no, the safe could not be searched based on the given senario.

diverdown247 · September 11th, 2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by automatic slim

From a retired LEO. No you would not have to open any locked item in your vehicle and he can't legally search a secured item without your consent or a warrant. This goes for your glovebox, trunk, console even a locked briefcase.
He can search areas you have access to where a weapon can be concealed for his safety, such as between the seats, under the seats, etc. If he wants to do that, request to exit the vehicle.

Being retired LEO (thanks for your public service), you might not know of the most recent Supreme Court decision regarding search consent. Once the driver is no longer in direct control of the vehicle (ie keys out of the ignition or out of the vehicle) consent is required. Officers can no longer search "for their safety" without consent, even if they've seen something in the approach to contact that would be a separate issue from the initial cause for the stop.

It was a very poor decision on the part of the Supreme Court and my suspicion is that some government employees (not just the Fed) were getting agitated over having their vehicles searched. Ultimately it could result in anything discovered being deemed "fruit of the forbidden tree" and indamissable in court as consent was not granted or a warrant was not issued.

That is what my campus PD folks showed our officers so we knew what change had occurred. That is, if nothing has overturned that decision within the past few months.

TucAzRider · September 11th, 2009, 01:09 AM

I live in Arizona, so it don't matter to me here,.. but on a legal aspect, you could carry a loaded weapon in a safe/vault secured to your car/truck with ammo (like in california or New york) and if stopped an LEO couldn't force you to open it up if they thought you had a weapon,.. Is that what I'm hearing?

BTW - Thanks for the imput,.. :-)

Ram Rod · September 11th, 2009, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Ok... This hit me in the way home.. Say you was in a state that didn't allow you to Conceal carry, let alone carry loaded in a car. Say also that you had a gun safe/vault in your car/truck. Say you was stopped and asked if you had any weapons on you and you answered "no"... Say the LEO spotted your safe bolted down and locked. If they asked you to open it, would you have to?

Assert your fourth amendment rights and refuse to submit to unwarranted (previously illegal) search and seizure.

Quote:

Also - say marshal law fell upon the states,.. If your guns was in your house and in a gun vault, how could they force you to open it???

By putting a gun to your head or beating you into submission?

PatrioticRick · September 11th, 2009, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ram Rod

By putting a gun to your head or beating you into submission?

That would do it!

TX-JB · September 11th, 2009, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ram Rod

By putting a gun to your head or beating you into submission?

That would make me forget the combination...

paramedic70002 · September 11th, 2009, 12:30 PM

Use a push button combination lock system. If forced, push the wrong buttons until it locks you out. Then claim you forgot the code since you just bought it/it's the wife's safe/etc.

September 10th, 2009, 08:40 PM	#1
TucAzRider Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tucson Posts: 792	Question - Locked case.. Ok... This hit me in the way home.. Say you was in a state that didn't allow you to Conceal carry, let alone carry loaded in a car. Say also that you had a gun safe/vault in your car/truck. Say you was stopped and asked if you had any weapons on you and you answered "no"... Say the LEO spotted your safe bolted down and locked. If they asked you to open it, would you have to? Also - say marshal law fell upon the states,.. If your guns was in your house and in a gun vault, how could they force you to open it??? __________________

September 10th, 2009, 09:49 PM	#2
automatic slim Distinguished Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: The western edge of The Confederacy Posts: 1,223	From a retired LEO. No you would not have to open any locked item in your vehicle and he can't legally search a secured item without your consent or a warrant. This goes for your glovebox, trunk, console even a locked briefcase. He can search areas you have access to where a weapon can be concealed for his safety, such as between the seats, under the seats, etc. If he wants to do that, request to exit the vehicle. __________________ "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand." Edge of Darkness

September 11th, 2009, 01:09 AM	#6
TucAzRider Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tucson Posts: 792	I live in Arizona, so it don't matter to me here,.. but on a legal aspect, you could carry a loaded weapon in a safe/vault secured to your car/truck with ammo (like in california or New york) and if stopped an LEO couldn't force you to open it up if they thought you had a weapon,.. Is that what I'm hearing? BTW - Thanks for the imput,.. :-) __________________

September 11th, 2009, 12:30 PM	#10
paramedic70002 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Franklin, VA Posts: 2,688	Use a push button combination lock system. If forced, push the wrong buttons until it locks you out. Then claim you forgot the code since you just bought it/it's the wife's safe/etc. __________________ Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But... Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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