Broken a law or ?

Wayne · May 19th, 2006, 05:15 PM

Okay, I was approached by a person that I had traded a Mossberg 500A (was my Uncles after I had given it to him and then he died and I got it back and didn't need it) for an old 20gauge single shot shotgun (collecting shotguns now). This was last November IIRC.

It turns out that it had been stolen and then was found in the vehicle of one of the people that comes over to his house. The person that had it is a felon.

Now, the reason that this guy approached me is that during the trade I asked him if he was allowed to own firearms, he shook his head yes. I made the trade. Well, it turns out that he himself is a felon

.

So, now there is a felon in jail for having the firearm and the person that had it has now just told me that he is a felon, and the shotgun probably has my fingerprints all over it as well as the guy I traded with will tell them that I traded it with him (I don't know if he will tell them that I traded for another firearm but I sure will if asked).

I am now wondering if I broke the law. I always thought that if your knowingly gave/sold a firearm to a felon that you could be jailed for it. In my case I didn't know, he didn't tell me, and he traded the shotgun freely.

So, am I up the creek or ?

Wayne

Redneck Repairs · May 19th, 2006, 05:42 PM

Check with an attny in your state , but in colorado you must knowingly transfer a firearm to a prohibited person to be in trouble. ATF is another issue , all i can say is contact an attny in your state , and possibly a mod can delete this thread just in case ( matter of public record and admission if things go wrong ) hope for the bestfor you on this tho , obviously ( to me ) you had no intent to violate

P95Carry · May 19th, 2006, 05:43 PM

One thing that comes to mind Wayne is - you made a sale/trade in good faith - meaning if you are given info from the buyer, you have to accept that as given, unless something very suspicious.

I do think it is worth having some paperwork to back up a sale/trade FTF - bill of sale type deal, on which maybe when signed there is a part saying the buyer is a non felon - so when he signs he is the one commiting the indiscretion.

Hard to know in this case really and best you could do if challenged is state you were led to believe all was Ok - you acted in good faith.

QKShooter · May 19th, 2006, 05:43 PM

OK Wayne....You KNOW that you should take free legal advice (given on the web) for what it is worth...and that is USUALLY not worth much at all...if anything.

That being said: If you want various opinions & just want to mull it all over in order to get some other Very Unofficial "takes" on what transpired then fine.

Please remember to take it all with a large block of salt.

QKShooter · May 19th, 2006, 06:04 PM

Let's see if we can make all of this a bit clearer:
The story is slightly confusing the way you have it worded up there.

> Back in November you traded the Mossberg shotgun to a person that "turned out" to be a prohibited person.

> The prohibited person that took posession of your shotgun traded you for a different shotgun that was in his posession. You traded him even ~ one shotgun for another.

> That person (a felon) misrepresented himself to you (at the time of the trade) & indicated (to you) that he was legal to possess a firearm.
You assumed that he was LEGAL since he already owned one.

> Then the Mossberg firearm was stolen from the original prohibited person by yet another different prohibited person.

> You very recently became aware of the fact that the person you traded with back in November is prohibited.

> Now...your fear is that the second felon is going to tell the authorities that he got the shotgun from the original felon who will likely name you & the trail is going to lead back to you.

Is that all basically correct?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~
It never pays to get unduly bent out of shape over anything...until you know for sure that you have real reasons to be upset.

You have some positive things going for you.

They would be that it was a long gun rather than a handgun.
Long gun laws are usually less restrictive.

You probably have no criminal history.

You did not knowingly or intentionally do anything wrong.

Oregon would be a pretty good State for this to have happened in.

Below was copied from "Gun Laws State By State"

I don't know how much of it is applicable to your situation.

Oregon ~ Frequently Asked Questions:

Rifles and Shotguns

Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No.

Registration of rifles and shotguns? No.

Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No.

Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No.

Handguns

Permit to purchase handgun? No.

Registration of handguns? No.

Licensing of owners of handguns? No.

Permit to carry handguns? Yes. A permit is required if concealed.

Wayne · May 19th, 2006, 08:54 PM

QK,

Quote:

> Now...your fear is that the second felon is going to tell the authorities that he got the shotgun from the original felon who will likely name you & the trail is going to lead back to you.

Not afraid that it's going to come back to me. Just know that if the first person that I traded with will probably try to do something to get themselves out of trouble by trying to put it on someone else (me). But, not "in fear".

You had everything right up to this point though. Just basically put this in here to find out if I was in some type of gray area and to also point out that anyone, even people that you do know somewhat, can lie to you and also not to assume that just because they own firearms they aren't prohibited from them but have them anyway.

Wayne

Bud White · May 19th, 2006, 09:06 PM

Dang wayne hope it doesnt come back on ya let us know what happens..

Here we arent required to go though ffl for rifle or shottie but a pistol i would have to so i could be in the same boat if i sold a rifle or shottie to joe blow

srfl · May 19th, 2006, 10:01 PM

Good luck there Wayne!

rocky · May 19th, 2006, 11:57 PM

I would research the law and consider contacting a attourney and Law Enforcement. If a felon has a gun in his possesion , he should be relieved of said weapon.

CopperKnight · May 20th, 2006, 01:19 AM

Sounds like it would be well spent money to talk to an attorney just so you are perfectly clear where you stand. Most laws require an "intent" to commit a crime. Certainly sounds like that didn't occur from your end.

May 19th, 2006, 05:15 PM	#1
Wayne Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 823	Broken a law or ? Okay, I was approached by a person that I had traded a Mossberg 500A (was my Uncles after I had given it to him and then he died and I got it back and didn't need it) for an old 20gauge single shot shotgun (collecting shotguns now). This was last November IIRC. It turns out that it had been stolen and then was found in the vehicle of one of the people that comes over to his house. The person that had it is a felon. Now, the reason that this guy approached me is that during the trade I asked him if he was allowed to own firearms, he shook his head yes. I made the trade. Well, it turns out that he himself is a felon . So, now there is a felon in jail for having the firearm and the person that had it has now just told me that he is a felon, and the shotgun probably has my fingerprints all over it as well as the guy I traded with will tell them that I traded it with him (I don't know if he will tell them that I traded for another firearm but I sure will if asked). I am now wondering if I broke the law. I always thought that if your knowingly gave/sold a firearm to a felon that you could be jailed for it. In my case I didn't know, he didn't tell me, and he traded the shotgun freely. So, am I up the creek or ? Wayne

May 19th, 2006, 05:43 PM	#3
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,400	One thing that comes to mind Wayne is - you made a sale/trade in good faith - meaning if you are given info from the buyer, you have to accept that as given, unless something very suspicious. I do think it is worth having some paperwork to back up a sale/trade FTF - bill of sale type deal, on which maybe when signed there is a part saying the buyer is a non felon - so when he signs he is the one commiting the indiscretion. Hard to know in this case really and best you could do if challenged is state you were led to believe all was Ok - you acted in good faith. __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

May 19th, 2006, 06:04 PM	#5
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Off Of The X Posts: 20,463	Let's see if we can make all of this a bit clearer: The story is slightly confusing the way you have it worded up there. > Back in November you traded the Mossberg shotgun to a person that "turned out" to be a prohibited person. > The prohibited person that took posession of your shotgun traded you for a different shotgun that was in his posession. You traded him even ~ one shotgun for another. > That person (a felon) misrepresented himself to you (at the time of the trade) & indicated (to you) that he was legal to possess a firearm. You assumed that he was LEGAL since he already owned one. > Then the Mossberg firearm was stolen from the original prohibited person by yet another different prohibited person. > You very recently became aware of the fact that the person you traded with back in November is prohibited. > Now...your fear is that the second felon is going to tell the authorities that he got the shotgun from the original felon who will likely name you & the trail is going to lead back to you. Is that all basically correct? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It never pays to get unduly bent out of shape over anything...until you know for sure that you have real reasons to be upset. You have some positive things going for you. They would be that it was a long gun rather than a handgun. Long gun laws are usually less restrictive. You probably have no criminal history. You did not knowingly or intentionally do anything wrong. Oregon would be a pretty good State for this to have happened in. Below was copied from "Gun Laws State By State" I don't know how much of it is applicable to your situation. Oregon ~ Frequently Asked Questions: Rifles and Shotguns Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No. Registration of rifles and shotguns? No. Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No. Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No. Handguns Permit to purchase handgun? No. Registration of handguns? No. Licensing of owners of handguns? No. Permit to carry handguns? Yes. A permit is required if concealed.

May 19th, 2006, 10:01 PM	#8
srfl Senior Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FL Posts: 6,654	Good luck there Wayne! __________________ USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

May 19th, 2006, 11:57 PM	#9
rocky Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MI Posts: 12,046	I would research the law and consider contacting a attourney and Law Enforcement. If a felon has a gun in his possesion , he should be relieved of said weapon. __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson Nemo Me Impune Lacesset Link to my kydex builds:http://rocknloadkydex.blogspot.com/

May 19th, 2006, 05:42 PM	#2
Redneck Repairs VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,141	Check with an attny in your state , but in colorado you must knowingly transfer a firearm to a prohibited person to be in trouble. ATF is another issue , all i can say is contact an attny in your state , and possibly a mod can delete this thread just in case ( matter of public record and admission if things go wrong ) hope for the bestfor you on this tho , obviously ( to me ) you had no intent to violate

May 19th, 2006, 09:06 PM	#7
Bud White VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 17,476	Dang wayne hope it doesnt come back on ya let us know what happens.. Here we arent required to go though ffl for rifle or shottie but a pistol i would have to so i could be in the same boat if i sold a rifle or shottie to joe blow

May 20th, 2006, 01:19 AM	#10
CopperKnight Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Spokane area, WA Posts: 4,832	Sounds like it would be well spent money to talk to an attorney just so you are perfectly clear where you stand. Most laws require an "intent" to commit a crime. Certainly sounds like that didn't occur from your end. __________________ Being happy doesn't mean everything's perfect, but that you've decided to see beyond the imperfections. The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

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