CCW and knifes - Page 3

BAC · November 15th, 2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packinnova

Scenario:
You've foolishly allowed your awareness level too low and an attacker reveals him/herself at EXTREMELY close range (ie striking distance).
A H2H fight ensues and before you can draw your pistol, you end up on the ground and on the bottom at that. This is where that tactical folder, neatly clipped into a cargo pocket on the side of your pants, comes in handy. Deploy and attack vitals, both damaging your attacker and gets his attention away from you and onto the knife. This should also give you the opportunity and time to deploy your firearm and finish the job if necessary while he/she is already writhing in pain from the kidney and lung puncture wounds you gave them with the knife. Granted this is also assuming you've taken the step to get training with that knife too. A knife is a great defensive and offensive tool. It's even better when the user knows HOW and WHEN to use it.

Not to be picky but if you're already hand-to-hand, and on the ground, assuming with the bad guy on top, the time it takes to draw that knife can get you killed. If you're not trained in ground fighting the ground is a bad place to be, and you need both hands to defend yourself and get out.

Remember that adage about you being the weapon and the instrument is just that? A knife is good to have around for utilitarian purposes, don't keep me wrong, but if someone's in range to strike with a knife they're already too close and you probably won't have time to deploy any weapon save for your hands/fists/elbows/knees/head. Your last sentence rings very true.

-B

packinnova · November 15th, 2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAC

Not to be picky but if you're already hand-to-hand, and on the ground, assuming with the bad guy on top, the time it takes to draw that knife can get you killed. If you're not trained in ground fighting the ground is a bad place to be, and you need both hands to defend yourself and get out.

Remember that adage about you being the weapon and the instrument is just that? A knife is good to have around for utilitarian purposes, don't keep me wrong, but if someone's in range to strike with a knife they're already too close and you probably won't have time to deploy any weapon save for your hands/fists/elbows/knees/head. Your last sentence rings very true.

-B

That's why I had the last sentence in there and no argument with your second to last statement if the attacker has already deployed a knife. And yes I am trained. Since age 15 steadily in 1995 until last year. I know when I can and can't use both hands on the ground and why. And the time it takes to deploy said knife when it's an assisted opener clipped to a cargo pocket and you TRAIN specifically for that option...is quite quick.

From what I've seen, the vast majority of the run-ins you have on the street aren't going to be that well trained. The H2H attackers are going to be brawlers at best(since I grew up in baltimore I do have first hand knowledge on that brawler statement!). Most of them don't seem to have any formal training. It's all what they've picked up on the street or seen on tv and try to replicate. At least 80% of the fights I ended up in growing up for some reason or another the attacker ended up bum-rushing me after a short-lived attempt at an unskilled brawl. That's why I usually advocate folks take some form of MIXED martial arts rather than just sticking with traditional karate or taekwondo for self defense.

KevinInstructor · November 15th, 2007, 07:23 PM

I always carry my Emerson full-size Commander and gets used almost on a daily basis for opening things and can be used for self-defense if the need every arises although I see the LLC more suited for this purpose but is not always carried.

limatunes · November 15th, 2007, 09:27 PM

I routinely have at least 3 knives on me. One is for last-ditch efforts, gun retention and defense only. The other two are for utility purposes. I use a knife at LEAST seven times every single day.

In a gun retention situation, I'm no match for most anyone hand-to-hand, but a knife can also be a great equalizer. I'd MUCH rather have that than nothing at all.

I carried a knife years before I ever carried a gun and I used it for those years, too.

simon · November 15th, 2007, 09:37 PM

My knife is my daily universal tool...use it all the time,work or play.

BAC · November 15th, 2007, 10:57 PM

packinnova, I think you're spot on about how quick a trained-with tool can come out, but I'm leery about assisted openers. I guess to me it's one more thing that can fail, however justified or not that statement is. I suppose I should consider one...

Anyway, Limatunes, even though you're fairly small some hand-to-hand training that lets you emphasize grappling (the most likely scenario a woman would use hand-to-hand) might surprise you at what can get a person off you. As long as things like eye gouges, skin twists, and jamming fingers into sides of ribs is something you're cool with.

-B

limatunes · November 15th, 2007, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAC

Anyway, Limatunes, even though you're fairly small some hand-to-hand training that lets you emphasize grappling (the most likely scenario a woman would use hand-to-hand) might surprise you at what can get a person off you. As long as things like eye gouges, skin twists, and jamming fingers into sides of ribs is something you're cool with.

-B

Agreed.

I have been able to do a little practicing with that kind of stuff with my husband instructing.. He has taught me how to throw a pretty mean punch.

But I'll never be disillusioned as to what I can and cannot do physically. I may be able to bite, kick, eye-gouge, and everything else, (and YES, I'll do it all to get away), but I'd much rather have SOMETHING to help.

The classes I want to take are as follows (but not necessarily in this order):
1. Defensive Knife
2. Intermediate Handgun
3. Hand-to-Hand
4. Advanced Handgun...

And so on and so on.

I may not always have a gun. I may not always have a knife... but dog-gonnit, I'll always have my hands.... and my fingernails!

There's a good knife right there!

retsupt99 · November 15th, 2007, 11:33 PM

If I carry nothing else...which is almost never...I ALWAYS have a knife on my person...used almost daily...

Stay armed...stay safe!

Rexster · November 18th, 2007, 04:41 AM

Well, my neighbors got tired of me shooting packages to open them, so I had to get a knife.

OK, seriously, yes, I carry two folders, one on each side, ready for emergencies. Most emergencies for which a blade is indicated have nothing to do with fighting. Is an elevator or subway door holding someone by the hair, purse strap, or backpack strap? Is a panicked animal dragging its owner, or tangled in something, causing injuries to itself? Is someone's hair/clothing caught in machinery? If someone is trapped inside a vehicle, the doors jammed, removing the windshield channel gasket, and then prying the glass from its bedding, can be done with a small, sturdy knife, and folks, I have personally encountered this latter situation, which is a major reason I carry TWO STURDY BLADES. In that particular incident, I did have the blade with me, and the victim was already beyond hope, but I will never be without a stout blade. (Cruz, rest in peace, brother.)

glock27mark · November 18th, 2007, 06:45 AM

well since were talking about knifes,hope yall dont mind this question.
anyway i have an old buck folding lockblade about 3"(blade that is)
the leather case it came with as belt loop on it.my question is,wearing
that dose it need to be exposed or can it be cocealed under shir or
coat without any legal issuses.not to familary with mich knife laws
so i should take time to learn.(didnt see much info on diff. websites)
thanks in advance for any input

November 15th, 2007, 07:23 PM	#23
KevinInstructor Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Oregon USA Posts: 187	I always carry my Emerson full-size Commander and gets used almost on a daily basis for opening things and can be used for self-defense if the need every arises although I see the LLC more suited for this purpose but is not always carried. __________________ Stay Safe, Kevin CSSDSD Instructor ACCJT Certified LEO DT Instructor NRA Instructor

November 15th, 2007, 11:33 PM	#28
retsupt99 VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 12,583	If I carry nothing else...which is almost never...I ALWAYS have a knife on my person...used almost daily... Stay armed...stay safe! __________________ ‘‘Four out of five politicians surveyed prefered unarmed, ignorant peasants.’’ — Unknown Liberals are as American as 'dog dodo' pie...

November 18th, 2007, 04:41 AM	#29
Rexster Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: SE Texas Posts: 156	Well, my neighbors got tired of me shooting packages to open them, so I had to get a knife. OK, seriously, yes, I carry two folders, one on each side, ready for emergencies. Most emergencies for which a blade is indicated have nothing to do with fighting. Is an elevator or subway door holding someone by the hair, purse strap, or backpack strap? Is a panicked animal dragging its owner, or tangled in something, causing injuries to itself? Is someone's hair/clothing caught in machinery? If someone is trapped inside a vehicle, the doors jammed, removing the windshield channel gasket, and then prying the glass from its bedding, can be done with a small, sturdy knife, and folks, I have personally encountered this latter situation, which is a major reason I carry TWO STURDY BLADES. In that particular incident, I did have the blade with me, and the victim was already beyond hope, but I will never be without a stout blade. (Cruz, rest in peace, brother.) Last edited by Rexster; November 18th, 2007 at 04:42 AM. Reason: typos

November 18th, 2007, 06:45 AM	#30
glock27mark Distinguished Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: s.e. mich Posts: 1,542	well since were talking about knifes,hope yall dont mind this question. anyway i have an old buck folding lockblade about 3"(blade that is) the leather case it came with as belt loop on it.my question is,wearing that dose it need to be exposed or can it be cocealed under shir or coat without any legal issuses.not to familary with mich knife laws so i should take time to learn.(didnt see much info on diff. websites) thanks in advance for any input __________________ {sheriff buford t. justice}what the h*** is the world coming too. nra life member

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November 15th, 2007, 09:37 PM	#25
simon VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,201	My knife is my daily universal tool...use it all the time,work or play.

November 15th, 2007, 10:57 PM	#26
BAC Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 997	packinnova, I think you're spot on about how quick a trained-with tool can come out, but I'm leery about assisted openers. I guess to me it's one more thing that can fail, however justified or not that statement is. I suppose I should consider one... Anyway, Limatunes, even though you're fairly small some hand-to-hand training that lets you emphasize grappling (the most likely scenario a woman would use hand-to-hand) might surprise you at what can get a person off you. As long as things like eye gouges, skin twists, and jamming fingers into sides of ribs is something you're cool with. -B