Martial arts - Page 4

TexasAg · December 20th, 2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro2A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aicHs...eature=related

Those videos are so awful I don't even know where to start. If you think that's how somebody is going to come at you in a real fight, you're going to be very, very suprised (in a bad way) one day. It would be worth your time to find an MMA gym in your area and go workout with them one day. Try to use your aikido on somebody in a sparring session and see how well it works out for you. I guarantee that it will be a worthwhile experience.

airbornerangerboogie · December 20th, 2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro2A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIowy...eature=related

Here is another video showing how potent Aikido can be if you know it really well. The video is in Japanese, but still shows in more detail how it uses joints to drop a BG. I beg to differ that Aikido isn't good for "street fighting" I watched our instructor take on 3 guys in a demo and knock them all down. Just like when you are in a situation where you are observing your surroundings, Aikido teaches the same thing and shows you how to be ready at a moments notice when you are bum rushed by one or multiple BG's.

Sorry, but a martial artist attacking from a "stance" doesn't equal real world. The video is still showing patterned attacks, if you really want realism pick the opponent at random from the crowd.

c3ks · December 20th, 2007, 11:39 PM

Pro2A- since you dig funny martial arts clips from Youtube, I figured I would share one of my favorites with you. It's probably all the self-defense instruction you will ever need.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=D3K-mrlYG7Y

Bas is the man.

monky · December 21st, 2007, 02:03 AM

I studied Hapkido for 12 years and it was probably the most fun (minus the bruises, bleeding, pad burns, soreness) I have ever had. I have not been in for about 12 years and a few years ago I went to a McDojo... big mistake. My first night there turned into a full on fight with a BJJ guy who actually hurt one of the students there. In all his infinite wisdom.. he made the first mistake I was warned about, and I'm sure everyone knows.. never under estimate your opponent.

He was attempting to show a hip toss, and would not 'slow down' for other students to see what he was doing.. I started to explain it to a few students and apparently he did not like that.. so I became his sparring partner.. no problem.. been there.. done that. What I did have a problem with was an elbow he delivered after the fact and then did not offer me a hand up.. so next round I reversed his throw.. and when I gave him a hand up he kicked me as I turned.. I'm sure he lost most if not ALL of his students after that night.. the fight ended with him being choked out in about 3 seconds.

There is a new hopkido place by my house.. first one i've seen in CO.. and i've been meaning to check it out, after talking to the guys I'm hoping to get off work early enough to make it...

KenpoTex · December 21st, 2007, 05:05 AM

since we're posting you-tube vids, this is the way real fights often happen. I don't know the circumstances of this one but the guy that did the butt-whuppin (whether he was in the right or not) gets a "hats-off" from me for his decisiveness and willingness to "flip the switch." The action starts at about the 42 second mark. Beauuuutiful headbutt

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FveIeUGpsBA

Most TMA's (traditional martial-arts) don't address realistic attack scenarios. When they do techniques, they're performed against a cooperative opponent in a very controlled and scripted manner (much like the Aikido demos in the vids posted earlier). As a result, you're left with people who are about as equipped to face a real attack as they would be if they had gone and learned to dance the Tango instead of studying a system that's mostly "show" and very little "go." And don't even get me started on the weapons defenses taught in most TMA's...they're suicidal.

As someone else mentioned, the overriding factor is mindset. This is one area where Aikido (I'm picking on this style since it's already been mentioned) really lacks. All the peaceful-warrior, pacifist, defensive crap is just that. Someone mentioned Paul Vunak (great quote from him by the way), his style of teaching is a little more in line with the proper mindset for dealing with a serious threat. Basically, defensive moves should also serve to damage the attacker's incoming weapon (punch, kick, etc.), then you bridge to get into close range, finally you destroy him with high-probability weapons like elbows, knees, and head-butts. Other systems like WWII combatives and Krav-Maga/Haganah/FIGHT share similar concepts.

Now before I have a ton of people gripping at me, I'm not saying that there aren't people with TMA backgrounds out there that can't take care of business (there are a few). What I'm saying is that the majority of MA'ists I've met and/or talked to don't train in a realistic manner and don't really have a very good mindset when it comes to dealing with the realities of a criminal assault.

Kevan · December 21st, 2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenpoTex

Most TMA's (traditional martial-arts) don't address realistic attack scenarios.

One thing that makes judo so useful is that, as a grappling technique, all of its techniques are immediately applicable in real life. The three steps in a judo throw are to disturb the opponent's balance, destroy it, and then dash him on the ground (or, if available, a fire hydrant). Then usually it goes to a choke or strangle.

What I found in my limited experience outside the dojo is that an opponent has no idea of what to do in response to a judo attack. Before he can respond, his feet are up level with his head and he's helplessly flying toward a very debilitating impact.

As a judoka, I would love to be attacked like the guy in the video, where the attacker grabbed him by the lapels with both hands. It's a boilerplate judo stance. ON THE OTHER HAND, I'll guarantee you that the head-butt would have k.o.'ed me just like it did the victim in the video

. Why? Because I have an essentially defensive mindset and I would not have expected the confrontation to escalate instantly. So KenpoTex, I agree with you strongly.

I'll repeat my earlier claim: the real effectiveness lies with whoever can execute his technique first.

Pro2A · December 21st, 2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c3ks

Pro2A- since you dig funny martial arts clips from Youtube, I figured I would share one of my favorites with you. It's probably all the self-defense instruction you will ever need.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=D3K-mrlYG7Y

Bas is the man.

Interesting. Some of those locks are what Aikido teaches.

Supertac45 · December 21st, 2007, 05:55 PM

It takes a lot of practice to stay on top.

Sgt.Rock · December 21st, 2007, 06:27 PM

Like what other people have said already, I think any martial art applied in a realistic manner can be used to gain the upper hand in fighting. Just don't adhere to things in a textbook manner.

For example, I'm currently taking Fencing (foil, but soon sabre as well) as a class at my University, and truthfully, I feel a little more confident in my ability to fight and win (unarmed and with a knife). This isn't because I'm going to use fencing stances and techniques to fight and win (what a pipe dream), its that I'm going to apply the motions and bodily movement that I've learned to read and react to, as well the movements I've learned to defend (basically the parries, but four basic movement to keep blows from landing), to keep myself conscious and alive and in position to do some serious damage.

Really, if anything at all, its a confidence booster and fundamental training tool. We fight at 100%, and try to "kill" each other with slender, stabbing swords. It helps develop a "combat" mentality. The blades move at speeds faster than a punch can be delivered (the tip of the blade has the leverage produced from the length of the blade and the wrist, as well as the forward movement of the arm), so it helps reaction times and identification.

So, it doesn't directly help me with non-sport fighting, but there are many things learned and practiced that have the potential of giving me advantages. Besides all that, its fun for me as well, though I've gotten some deep bruises before from blades breaking off on my leg.

Kevan · December 21st, 2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sgt.Rock

I'm currently taking Fencing

Ain't it a trip? I loved fencing and found it very educational and enlightening.

December 20th, 2007, 11:39 PM	#33
c3ks Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Middle of Nowhere Posts: 21	Pro2A- since you dig funny martial arts clips from Youtube, I figured I would share one of my favorites with you. It's probably all the self-defense instruction you will ever need. http://youtube.com/watch?v=D3K-mrlYG7Y Bas is the man. __________________ --- It is said that the nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools.

December 21st, 2007, 05:05 AM	#35
KenpoTex Distinguished Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 1,771	since we're posting you-tube vids, this is the way real fights often happen. I don't know the circumstances of this one but the guy that did the butt-whuppin (whether he was in the right or not) gets a "hats-off" from me for his decisiveness and willingness to "flip the switch." The action starts at about the 42 second mark. Beauuuutiful headbutt http://youtube.com/watch?v=FveIeUGpsBA Most TMA's (traditional martial-arts) don't address realistic attack scenarios. When they do techniques, they're performed against a cooperative opponent in a very controlled and scripted manner (much like the Aikido demos in the vids posted earlier). As a result, you're left with people who are about as equipped to face a real attack as they would be if they had gone and learned to dance the Tango instead of studying a system that's mostly "show" and very little "go." And don't even get me started on the weapons defenses taught in most TMA's...they're suicidal. As someone else mentioned, the overriding factor is mindset. This is one area where Aikido (I'm picking on this style since it's already been mentioned) really lacks. All the peaceful-warrior, pacifist, defensive crap is just that. Someone mentioned Paul Vunak (great quote from him by the way), his style of teaching is a little more in line with the proper mindset for dealing with a serious threat. Basically, defensive moves should also serve to damage the attacker's incoming weapon (punch, kick, etc.), then you bridge to get into close range, finally you destroy him with high-probability weapons like elbows, knees, and head-butts. Other systems like WWII combatives and Krav-Maga/Haganah/FIGHT share similar concepts. Now before I have a ton of people gripping at me, I'm not saying that there aren't people with TMA backgrounds out there that can't take care of business (there are a few). What I'm saying is that the majority of MA'ists I've met and/or talked to don't train in a realistic manner and don't really have a very good mindset when it comes to dealing with the realities of a criminal assault. __________________ "There are no substitutes for violence of action and volume of fire..." ~Otto Skorzeny If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears. Matt K.

December 21st, 2007, 05:55 PM	#38
Supertac45 VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan's U.P. Posts: 2,979	It takes a lot of practice to stay on top. __________________ Les Baer 45 Sig Man N.R.A. Patron Life Member M.C.R.G.O.

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December 21st, 2007, 02:03 AM	#34
monky Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Posts: 175	I studied Hapkido for 12 years and it was probably the most fun (minus the bruises, bleeding, pad burns, soreness) I have ever had. I have not been in for about 12 years and a few years ago I went to a McDojo... big mistake. My first night there turned into a full on fight with a BJJ guy who actually hurt one of the students there. In all his infinite wisdom.. he made the first mistake I was warned about, and I'm sure everyone knows.. never under estimate your opponent. He was attempting to show a hip toss, and would not 'slow down' for other students to see what he was doing.. I started to explain it to a few students and apparently he did not like that.. so I became his sparring partner.. no problem.. been there.. done that. What I did have a problem with was an elbow he delivered after the fact and then did not offer me a hand up.. so next round I reversed his throw.. and when I gave him a hand up he kicked me as I turned.. I'm sure he lost most if not ALL of his students after that night.. the fight ended with him being choked out in about 3 seconds. There is a new hopkido place by my house.. first one i've seen in CO.. and i've been meaning to check it out, after talking to the guys I'm hoping to get off work early enough to make it...

December 21st, 2007, 06:27 PM	#39
Sgt.Rock Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 23	Like what other people have said already, I think any martial art applied in a realistic manner can be used to gain the upper hand in fighting. Just don't adhere to things in a textbook manner. For example, I'm currently taking Fencing (foil, but soon sabre as well) as a class at my University, and truthfully, I feel a little more confident in my ability to fight and win (unarmed and with a knife). This isn't because I'm going to use fencing stances and techniques to fight and win (what a pipe dream), its that I'm going to apply the motions and bodily movement that I've learned to read and react to, as well the movements I've learned to defend (basically the parries, but four basic movement to keep blows from landing), to keep myself conscious and alive and in position to do some serious damage. Really, if anything at all, its a confidence booster and fundamental training tool. We fight at 100%, and try to "kill" each other with slender, stabbing swords. It helps develop a "combat" mentality. The blades move at speeds faster than a punch can be delivered (the tip of the blade has the leverage produced from the length of the blade and the wrist, as well as the forward movement of the arm), so it helps reaction times and identification. So, it doesn't directly help me with non-sport fighting, but there are many things learned and practiced that have the potential of giving me advantages. Besides all that, its fun for me as well, though I've gotten some deep bruises before from blades breaking off on my leg.