My employer wants me to be defenseless....

Team American · August 3rd, 2005, 01:45 PM

so they will not allow firearms on company property.

I work the afternoon shift at a large hospital in the Denver area, and live in a nearby apartment building. Lately, the walk home at 11:30 PM has become increasingly more interesting. There seems to be a lot more deadbeats hanging around than usual, and I'm spending more time thinking about my personal safety.

Since firearms are forbidden at work, I think that my self-defense options are pretty much limited to flashlight, pepper spray, and knife. I have a Brinkman Maxfire flashlight, but don't have a good pepper spray or knife yet.

I am looking for a Fox Labs dealer in the Denver area for the spray, but I would like some advice from this forum about the knife.

I'm limited in Colorado to a 3 1/2 inch blade...and I "think" that I would prefer a fixed blade knife with an inside-the-waistband kydex sheath, but am open to consider a good folder that would be easy to operate. Does anyone have any ideas for a knife novice?

Also, I have the oportunity to attend a knife training class in September with a fellow known as "SouthNarc"....does anyone have any personal experience or knowledge about his class?

Thanks to all for any input.

Rick

Q-ball · August 3rd, 2005, 01:55 PM

Your class with SouthNarc will not be disappointing. He's a very good instructor who isn't cocky or full of himself. SouthNarc will show you what to do and why you are doing it.
Here's a link., click on one of the videos under the picture.

Where's your class located? I'm taking one with him also in Sept.

Team American · August 3rd, 2005, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Q-ball

Where's your class located? I'm taking one with him also in Sept.

This class is in Lakewood, Colorado and I think it's on Sept. 23rd.

Euclidean · August 3rd, 2005, 02:39 PM

As with anything the first question is how much money are you about to spend?

But that said if you go the fixed blade route I do have a suggestion that won't break the bank. If nothing else you can try this and if it doesn't work for you, you can do what I did and trade up.

First the knife. I reccommend the CRKT Companion or Plan B. They're both inexpensive but not junk. At around $25 each give or take they pass what I call the drop test. Can you drop it and forget about it and not agonize over it? Yes. The other thing is that if you find there's something about the knives you don't like, you aren't out a war pension.

Now the most important thing when carrying a fixed blade IWB is the sheathing and the factory sheathing for these knives is awful. They should just sell the knives by themselves because the sheaths CRKT gives you aren't even functional. I personally recommend you spend the $30 or so to get a sheath made by On Scene Tactical or some other sheath maker.

You can find info on the knives easily enough, but here's On Scene Tactical because they're a little hard to find:

http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel/products.htm

Now if you go the folder route, I personally recommend the following products and I tell you why. First they're not super expensive so if they don't work for you, you aren't out a big load of money. Second, almost everyone likes them a little bit at least so you'll find another use for it even if you don't like to carry it, kind of like what I've done with my P89. Third I know first hand they are good knives that would last you a lifetime if cared for properly.

My personal favorite entry level folders are the Spyderco Endura and Delica. They have trainer models, they aren't super expensive, they're just fantastic knives. There's a little knife for the people that like the little knives and a bigger knife for people that like the bigger knives, they have multiple models with movable clips that carry different ways, so everybody's happy. There's a reason they are Spyderco's flagship product.

Now some people don't like Spyderco and think they're weird. Personally I'm a mindless Spyderco slave but that's just me. It costs a little more but I think the Benchmade 550 (hole) or 551 would be very much to the tastes of people that don't like Sypdercos. It seems you're either a Benchmade person or a Spyderco person.

A third alternative that's pretty common and not too expensive is the Kershaw Vapor and Vapor II. It comes in the smaller and larger size, and it's just a great knife for the money. It's also cheaper than the other choices I mentioned.

The thing to realize is that knives are like guns only much worse when it comes to subjectivity. The little debates we have here on revolver vs. semiautomatic or 9mm vs. 45 ACP are not nearly as divisive as people's opinion's on knives. I personally have a knife fixation and I went through a lot and I do mean a lot of knives before settling on something and I'm still not done.

I would say though that I've found around $25-$30 is what you have to pay for a knife that's "good", for whatever that means. It just goes up from there. Personally my glass ceiling on knives is usually $100 because I feel that if you spend any more the returns on your investment just aren't worth it. You can get such a good knife for $100 I just don't see the point of spending any more because the difference between a good $40 knife and a good $100 knife is pretty small sometimes, and the difference between a $500 knife and a $100 knife is even smaller.

Don't get me wrong I'd crap myself in joy if you gave me a Sebenza or a Strider, but I just don't need a knife that is that good. It doesn't offer me anything that I feel like I honestly need.

My personal choice in a carry blade is the Spyderco Perrin Bowie, and in a folder the factory waved Endura or the Manix. But I'm a Spyderco nut.

TwoRavens · August 3rd, 2005, 03:36 PM

I have S'Narc's Knife DVD. Very good stuff.

My dayly carry is the Disciple knife he desinged.

I would strongly recomend a fixed blade over a folder. In my experiance you will be lucky to access a folder in time if you are jumped. When I work in CA, where fixed blades are illegal, I carry Spydie Gunting, which I can use as a blunt instrument if needed...

Euclidean · August 3rd, 2005, 03:49 PM

TwoRavens I have to disagree with that point.

I think so long as you use an optimal carry method, it's silly to say you'll never get it out in time. Goodness the folder I carry now is open the instant it leaves the pocket.

Heck the Manix is easy enough to open even when you're trying to videotape it for someone else...

http://www.combatcarry.com/gallery//...loadfile&i=150

And that's with the other hand holding the camera.

Awareness and indexing is another part of the equation too. When I had to walk across a parking lot in Houston at 1 AM a couple of months ago I had my XD indexed and ready to draw in one hand and my C2 in the other.

I don't believe in piece pettin' but indexing under conditions like walking to your car at midnight I do believe in.

But the Disciple is great! That I do agree on. It's one of those tools I wouldn't mind breaking my $100 limit for. Although to be honest I see no reason one of those Camillus boot knives wouldn't be excellent for the pikal methodology at a much lower cost. SouthNarc was actually around here a couple of months ago but it was on a day I had to be somewhere else... sigh.

Team American · August 3rd, 2005, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euclidean

As with anything the first question is how much money are you about to spend?

I'm not enough of a "Big Spender" to say that cost is no object, but I would prefer a quality knife instead of a quantity of knives (read: a drawer full...sort of like a holster collection

)

It just has to stay within the 3 1/2" blade rule. I'm also not real big on serrated blades...

QKShooter · August 3rd, 2005, 04:08 PM

I just ordered from this company yesterday & on two other previous occasions.
Important: I do not know if their prices are the lowest that you'll be able to find or not. I usually do not sweat a few extra dollars though.
I can say that they are an honest company and they deliver/ship very fast. Their Fox Labs spray was very fresh as they just received a shipment. They sometimes sell out fast.
You can call them up & order by credit card by phone & if you call early enough they ship VIA UPS the same day. OC spray cannot go by AIR but, you should still get your order pretty quick. I just ordered 10 keychain units yesterday for some people around here & I'll likely have my order tomorrow.
They also accept Paypal but, not for ASP Batons.

Concerning Fox Labs...Be sure to order the STREAM and not the cone spray.
Either the COP TOP or the Flip Top is OK - both are just as easy to use.
Females that carry it in a purse should absolutely get the Flip Top so they don't have a "negligent discharge" inside their purse.

By The way...I've had my C C # on file with this Co. for a few months now & I've not had any problem at all. They are an honest company.

Here is the link.
Click Here For One Source For Fox Labs Spray

Team American · August 3rd, 2005, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoRavens

My dayly carry is the Disciple knife he desinged.

I checked out the link to Shivwork's sight....what is the length of the blade on the Disciple? The sheath that is shown with the knife looks like an IWB kydex? Did you get this with the knife, and if so, how does it work?

P95Carry · August 3rd, 2005, 04:13 PM

TA - first - sad you have to even consider all these alternatives.

Euc's post on knives was most interesting - I am more and more drawn to those which deploy easily. My daily folder carry is Buck Mayo TNT - a fine knife when open but despite practice, not quick enough for me to deploy.

This weekend I was looking at one of my fellow instructor's Kershaw BOA - and was impressed. It can be had with or without any serrations and comes out of the pocket just sweet as sweet. It is tho around the $100 mark and I am not keen to spend so much. But do very much want something that deploys that well.

Any links (sources, manufacturer sites) Euc that you think useful re what you discussed would be welcome - I must look into this further.

August 3rd, 2005, 01:45 PM	#1
Team American VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,797	My employer wants me to be defenseless.... so they will not allow firearms on company property. I work the afternoon shift at a large hospital in the Denver area, and live in a nearby apartment building. Lately, the walk home at 11:30 PM has become increasingly more interesting. There seems to be a lot more deadbeats hanging around than usual, and I'm spending more time thinking about my personal safety. Since firearms are forbidden at work, I think that my self-defense options are pretty much limited to flashlight, pepper spray, and knife. I have a Brinkman Maxfire flashlight, but don't have a good pepper spray or knife yet. I am looking for a Fox Labs dealer in the Denver area for the spray, but I would like some advice from this forum about the knife. I'm limited in Colorado to a 3 1/2 inch blade...and I "think" that I would prefer a fixed blade knife with an inside-the-waistband kydex sheath, but am open to consider a good folder that would be easy to operate. Does anyone have any ideas for a knife novice? Also, I have the oportunity to attend a knife training class in September with a fellow known as "SouthNarc"....does anyone have any personal experience or knowledge about his class? Thanks to all for any input. Rick __________________ "I surrounded 'em"- Alvin York "They're ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"- Jeff Cooper

August 3rd, 2005, 01:55 PM	#2
Q-ball Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 208	Your class with SouthNarc will not be disappointing. He's a very good instructor who isn't cocky or full of himself. SouthNarc will show you what to do and why you are doing it. Here's a link., click on one of the videos under the picture. Where's your class located? I'm taking one with him also in Sept. __________________ Seek safety at the heart of danger. Live Easy, Die Hard

August 3rd, 2005, 02:39 PM	#4
Euclidean VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 3,213	As with anything the first question is how much money are you about to spend? But that said if you go the fixed blade route I do have a suggestion that won't break the bank. If nothing else you can try this and if it doesn't work for you, you can do what I did and trade up. First the knife. I reccommend the CRKT Companion or Plan B. They're both inexpensive but not junk. At around $25 each give or take they pass what I call the drop test. Can you drop it and forget about it and not agonize over it? Yes. The other thing is that if you find there's something about the knives you don't like, you aren't out a war pension. Now the most important thing when carrying a fixed blade IWB is the sheathing and the factory sheathing for these knives is awful. They should just sell the knives by themselves because the sheaths CRKT gives you aren't even functional. I personally recommend you spend the $30 or so to get a sheath made by On Scene Tactical or some other sheath maker. You can find info on the knives easily enough, but here's On Scene Tactical because they're a little hard to find: http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel/products.htm Now if you go the folder route, I personally recommend the following products and I tell you why. First they're not super expensive so if they don't work for you, you aren't out a big load of money. Second, almost everyone likes them a little bit at least so you'll find another use for it even if you don't like to carry it, kind of like what I've done with my P89. Third I know first hand they are good knives that would last you a lifetime if cared for properly. My personal favorite entry level folders are the Spyderco Endura and Delica. They have trainer models, they aren't super expensive, they're just fantastic knives. There's a little knife for the people that like the little knives and a bigger knife for people that like the bigger knives, they have multiple models with movable clips that carry different ways, so everybody's happy. There's a reason they are Spyderco's flagship product. Now some people don't like Spyderco and think they're weird. Personally I'm a mindless Spyderco slave but that's just me. It costs a little more but I think the Benchmade 550 (hole) or 551 would be very much to the tastes of people that don't like Sypdercos. It seems you're either a Benchmade person or a Spyderco person. A third alternative that's pretty common and not too expensive is the Kershaw Vapor and Vapor II. It comes in the smaller and larger size, and it's just a great knife for the money. It's also cheaper than the other choices I mentioned. The thing to realize is that knives are like guns only much worse when it comes to subjectivity. The little debates we have here on revolver vs. semiautomatic or 9mm vs. 45 ACP are not nearly as divisive as people's opinion's on knives. I personally have a knife fixation and I went through a lot and I do mean a lot of knives before settling on something and I'm still not done. I would say though that I've found around $25-$30 is what you have to pay for a knife that's "good", for whatever that means. It just goes up from there. Personally my glass ceiling on knives is usually $100 because I feel that if you spend any more the returns on your investment just aren't worth it. You can get such a good knife for $100 I just don't see the point of spending any more because the difference between a good $40 knife and a good $100 knife is pretty small sometimes, and the difference between a $500 knife and a $100 knife is even smaller. Don't get me wrong I'd crap myself in joy if you gave me a Sebenza or a Strider, but I just don't need a knife that is that good. It doesn't offer me anything that I feel like I honestly need. My personal choice in a carry blade is the Spyderco Perrin Bowie, and in a folder the factory waved Endura or the Manix. But I'm a Spyderco nut. __________________ I am The Armed Educator.

August 3rd, 2005, 03:36 PM	#5
TwoRavens Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 115	I have S'Narc's Knife DVD. Very good stuff. My dayly carry is the Disciple knife he desinged. I would strongly recomend a fixed blade over a folder. In my experiance you will be lucky to access a folder in time if you are jumped. When I work in CA, where fixed blades are illegal, I carry Spydie Gunting, which I can use as a blunt instrument if needed... __________________ /********* Phill **********/ "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate" William of Ockham (ca. 1285-1349)

August 3rd, 2005, 03:49 PM	#6
Euclidean VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 3,213	TwoRavens I have to disagree with that point. I think so long as you use an optimal carry method, it's silly to say you'll never get it out in time. Goodness the folder I carry now is open the instant it leaves the pocket. Heck the Manix is easy enough to open even when you're trying to videotape it for someone else... http://www.combatcarry.com/gallery//...loadfile&i=150 And that's with the other hand holding the camera. Awareness and indexing is another part of the equation too. When I had to walk across a parking lot in Houston at 1 AM a couple of months ago I had my XD indexed and ready to draw in one hand and my C2 in the other. I don't believe in piece pettin' but indexing under conditions like walking to your car at midnight I do believe in. But the Disciple is great! That I do agree on. It's one of those tools I wouldn't mind breaking my $100 limit for. Although to be honest I see no reason one of those Camillus boot knives wouldn't be excellent for the pikal methodology at a much lower cost. SouthNarc was actually around here a couple of months ago but it was on a day I had to be somewhere else... sigh. __________________ I am The Armed Educator.

August 3rd, 2005, 04:08 PM	#8
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Off Of The X Posts: 20,463	Fox Labs I just ordered from this company yesterday & on two other previous occasions. Important: I do not know if their prices are the lowest that you'll be able to find or not. I usually do not sweat a few extra dollars though. I can say that they are an honest company and they deliver/ship very fast. Their Fox Labs spray was very fresh as they just received a shipment. They sometimes sell out fast. You can call them up & order by credit card by phone & if you call early enough they ship VIA UPS the same day. OC spray cannot go by AIR but, you should still get your order pretty quick. I just ordered 10 keychain units yesterday for some people around here & I'll likely have my order tomorrow. They also accept Paypal but, not for ASP Batons. Concerning Fox Labs...Be sure to order the STREAM and not the cone spray. Either the COP TOP or the Flip Top is OK - both are just as easy to use. Females that carry it in a purse should absolutely get the Flip Top so they don't have a "negligent discharge" inside their purse. By The way...I've had my C C # on file with this Co. for a few months now & I've not had any problem at all. They are an honest company. Here is the link. Click Here For One Source For Fox Labs Spray

August 3rd, 2005, 04:13 PM	#10
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,400	TA - first - sad you have to even consider all these alternatives. Euc's post on knives was most interesting - I am more and more drawn to those which deploy easily. My daily folder carry is Buck Mayo TNT - a fine knife when open but despite practice, not quick enough for me to deploy. This weekend I was looking at one of my fellow instructor's Kershaw BOA - and was impressed. It can be had with or without any serrations and comes out of the pocket just sweet as sweet. It is tho around the $100 mark and I am not keen to spend so much. But do very much want something that deploys that well. Any links (sources, manufacturer sites) Euc that you think useful re what you discussed would be welcome - I must look into this further. __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

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