Man arrested for carrying at Obama rally - Page 3

jahwarrior72 · August 31st, 2008, 12:24 PM

updates on the story:

Industry man contests arrest outside Obama rally

Quote:

Industry man contests arrest outside Obama rally
Saturday, August 30, 2008
By Milan Simonich, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

A Beaver County man who routinely wears a pistol on his hip says he was illegally arrested by local law officers before a rally for Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.

"I am a threat to no one. Mr. Obama doesn't trump my constitutional rights. The president of the United States doesn't trump my constitutional rights," said John Noble, who was handcuffed, questioned for about two hours and then told by state police that he would receive two citations for disorderly conduct.

Mr. Noble, 50, of Industry, said he wore a holstered Glock 19 when he entered the park across the street from the Beaver County Courthouse more than an hour before Mr. Obama arrived for a campaign appearance Friday night.

"I had a Bible in one hand and an apple in the other. I was going to pass out my fliers [on the rights of law-abiding Americans to carry guns], but I never got the chance."

State police in Beaver County referred questions about Mr. Noble's arrest to Trooper Shawn Schexnaildre, of New Castle, who was part of the law enforcement detail in the park. The trooper, who was to begin his shift later today, could not be reached immediately for comment.

Jim Gehr, agent in charge of the U.S. Secret Service field office in Pittsburgh, said the federal agency did not file any charges against Mr. Noble.

"Our people did talk to him. He never entered the event area," Agent Gehr said.

Mr. Noble said four or five law officers, plus a police dog, descended on him after somebody reported that he was wearing a pistol on his hip. He said they held him for 40 minutes in a Secret Service vehicle, then took him to the Beaver barracks of the state police for questioning. After being cuffed and shackled, he said, police eventually read him his rights. They also confiscated his pistol.

"Didn't even give me a receipt for it. There were lots of violations of my constitutional rights," Mr. Noble said,

After his arrest, his wife, Janet, handed out his fliers on citizens' rights to carry guns.

Mr. Noble said he had not decided whether to support Mr. Obama or Republican John McCain in the presidential election. He said he hoped Mr. Obama would call him to affirm the right of a law-abiding man to carry a pistol while a presidential contender visited.

Mr. Noble, a former body guard, said he used to carry his pistol in his clothing. But, he said, he has openly worn his handgun in a secure holster for the last four or five years. Nobody ever bothered him before, he said. He said he sometimes is asked why he carries a gun, and he explains that it is his constitutional right. In a practical sense, he said, he arms himself for protection.

He said he has a lawyer and may bring a lawsuit over his treatment by police.

Scott · August 31st, 2008, 01:37 PM

Please articulate exactly how Sen. Obama took actions that led to this man's arrest? The Secret Service was only involved after the PA State Police took the man into custody. Ya'll are getting your undies in a bunch about Obama trampling this man's rights when in reality it was the PA State Police that did it. The Secret Service said the man was outside their event area and therefore they could care less about him. If you have info that indicates that Obama gave orders to the PA State Police to trample on the rights of people who may be in the area, and that held positions that Obama doesn't agree with, I'll bet there would be a line of people wanting to see it.

If ya'll can't control your urges to candidate bash, this one will get locked.

PaulG · August 31st, 2008, 04:33 PM

The statement in the update that jumped out at me was:

Jim Gehr, agent in charge of the U.S. Secret Service field office in Pittsburgh, said the federal agency did not file any charges against Mr. Noble.

"Our people did talk to him. He never entered the event area," Agent Gehr said.

This seems to rule out the notion that he violated the Federal law about entering an area protected by the SS.

I think he will be vindicated.

Bark'n · September 1st, 2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archer51

...SS and LEO are going to error on the side of caution,

SS? Who invited the German's to this security detail?

All kidding aside, In regards to USC Title 18, Section 1752 (Temporary residence & offices of the President and others...) (1.) (i) Any building or grounds...
(ii) Any posted or cordoned off area...

If the man was in fact outside of the cordoned off security area for the Obama visit, then I believe it would be an illegal arrest. (standard disclaimer: this is my opinion folks... I am not an attorney)

The fact that the Secret Service did not file any charges of their own speaks volumes!

The Secret Service is pretty serious as to their protection duties. And rightfully so. Especially after Dallas! If there were legitimate charges to be filed, the Secret Service would have filed charges of their own for sure.

What happened in my opinion, is they accomplished a harassing technique that accomplished what they wanted. They got a "man with a gun" out of the area for the event. Problem solved! Any violation of the mans civil rights, if any stem from it, won't come back on the Secret Service. It will only reflect and ensnare the local LEO's and the State of PA.

Feds go home with no dirt on them and PA is left with a lawsuit to clean up.

Pretty shoddy ethics if you ask me, if things are as they appear.

JMHO...

Now... If his only reason for carrying a gun is for his own personal protection, why the heck was he open carrying? In my opinion it was to make a statement first, personal protection second. In my opinion, he should have known better than to open carry in a situation like this. Just playing a "cat-n-mouse" game with LEO. It may have been his right to open carry, but in my opinion, using a gun to make a political statement just begs for trouble. As far as I'm concerned he was foolish in the extreme! And demonstrated a gross lack of judgment.

YMMV

kpw · September 1st, 2008, 02:17 AM

Maybe it was the bible he was carrying that they didn't like. He was clinging to his gun and his religion...literally. Someone must have thought he was bitter, too!

IfIhaveto · September 1st, 2008, 02:09 PM

I think different rules apply with politicians...When I was in the Military my Unit guarded and Air Defense Unit (We were all armed) George Bush Sr (Vice President at the time) visited the facility ...The night prior to his arrival Secret Service stopped by and removed all our Ammo..We stood guard w/o Ammo...We did have help from the Geese that walked the perimeter.

Emahevul · September 5th, 2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IfIhaveto

I think different rules apply with politicians...When I was in the Military my Unit guarded and Air Defense Unit (We were all armed) George Bush Sr (Vice President at the time) visited the facility ...The night prior to his arrival Secret Service stopped by and removed all our Ammo..We stood guard w/o Ammo...We did have help from the Geese that walked the perimeter.

I can remember standing guard MANY time in the late '80's when I was assigned to Ferris Barracks in Erlangen Germany. We would be posted with M-16 in hand, magazine in the well......unloaded.

SleepingZ · September 6th, 2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by automatic slim

As a retired LEO allow me to comment. I read the article but was unable to determine which state this was in. If it was an open carry state this man was certainly within his rights. As for the disorderly conduct charge, that would depend wholly on how the statute was written. Many contain the phrase "any action which causes others distress". In this case the charges may stick. Such wording is intended to give law enforcement the upper hand when encountering
situations not specifically covered by law, such as pan handling, which many locales don't have on the books because it's never been a problem. Such wording however does invite abuse, when it is used just to get someone off the street. If I was this gentleman I would certainly consult a lawyer.

"any action which causes others distress" I HATE such vague laws such as that-----All laws should be objective not subjective. For example if watching a gay couple holding hands and kissing in public gives me "distress" should they be arrested---I don't think so. To me, any legislator that draws up silly laws such as that are either to stupid or lazy to figure out the right thing to do.

Z

jahwarrior72 · September 6th, 2008, 01:37 PM

i guess now you can be charged with a "future" crime, a la "the Minority Report":

MTN Jack arrested - Pennsylvania

Quote:

In filing charges, state police Trooper Shawn L. Schexnaildre said “the accused’s political agenda and intent to disrupt the proceedings at the Obama rally were clearly evident by his own statement and actions.”

However, Schexnaildre pointed out that Noble did not violate the law by simply having the gun, as it’s legal in Pennsylvania to wear a weapon out in the open without a permit.

...Schexnaildre said Noble’s answers indicated “his intent was to disrupt the proceedings.” The trooper added that Noble said “he did not think he would get within a mile of the senator, but was apprehended within 100 yards of the podium after crossing the outer perimeter barrier tape and being in a position to see no less than a dozen police officers.”

i foresee the charges being dismissed. by schexnaildre's own admission, noble commited no crime.

IfIhaveto · September 6th, 2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emahevul

I can remember standing guard MANY time in the late '80's when I was assigned to Ferris Barracks in Erlangen Germany. We would be posted with M-16 in hand, magazine in the well......unloaded.

All I can say is G. I.

Government Issue

August 31st, 2008, 01:37 PM	#22
Scott Senior Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Old Dominion Posts: 4,863	Please articulate exactly how Sen. Obama took actions that led to this man's arrest? The Secret Service was only involved after the PA State Police took the man into custody. Ya'll are getting your undies in a bunch about Obama trampling this man's rights when in reality it was the PA State Police that did it. The Secret Service said the man was outside their event area and therefore they could care less about him. If you have info that indicates that Obama gave orders to the PA State Police to trample on the rights of people who may be in the area, and that held positions that Obama doesn't agree with, I'll bet there would be a line of people wanting to see it. If ya'll can't control your urges to candidate bash, this one will get locked. __________________ Obamamessiah... Let the miracles begin!!!

August 31st, 2008, 04:33 PM	#23
PaulG Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 1,127	The statement in the update that jumped out at me was: Jim Gehr, agent in charge of the U.S. Secret Service field office in Pittsburgh, said the federal agency did not file any charges against Mr. Noble. "Our people did talk to him. He never entered the event area," Agent Gehr said. This seems to rule out the notion that he violated the Federal law about entering an area protected by the SS. I think he will be vindicated. __________________ fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

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September 1st, 2008, 02:17 AM	#25
kpw Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: PA Posts: 1,116	Maybe it was the bible he was carrying that they didn't like. He was clinging to his gun and his religion...literally. Someone must have thought he was bitter, too!

September 1st, 2008, 02:09 PM	#26
IfIhaveto Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: TX Posts: 251	I think different rules apply with politicians...When I was in the Military my Unit guarded and Air Defense Unit (We were all armed) George Bush Sr (Vice President at the time) visited the facility ...The night prior to his arrival Secret Service stopped by and removed all our Ammo..We stood guard w/o Ammo...We did have help from the Geese that walked the perimeter.