Open carry in Alabama - Page 2

imthduke · May 13th, 2009, 05:35 PM

Anyone that wants to "case test" the issue of open carry. If you will do it in St Clair County, just because I know the Sheriff, I can get you one of their very best cells while you are waiting to make bail

fox2102 · May 13th, 2009, 05:54 PM

Yeah i try to avoid open carry too. I have open carried a couple of times late at night at rest stops but it has lead to some issues with one of the secruity guards so now I go concealed all the time

Dakota97 · May 13th, 2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaSteve

my fault...I meant that to be two separate issues. First I'd like them to establish in writing where they stand on open carry. And second I'd like Alabama to become "shall issue."

Sorry for the confusion.

No confusion and no need for you to apologize. I was just speaking to how ridiculous some of our LEOs act toward something that is legal..

CeltKnight · May 22nd, 2009, 04:02 PM

I know this is almost a dead thread now, but I thought I'd point out, even if we ever DO get open carry here (and it would be nice) there's the wee issue of this:
Section 13A-11-52
Carrying pistol on premises not his own; who may carry pistol.
Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control; but this section shall not apply to any sheriff or his deputy or police officer of an incorporated town or city in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or to United States marshal or his deputies, rural free delivery mail carriers in the discharge of their duties as such, bonded constables in the discharge of their duties as such, conductors, railway mail clerks and express messengers in the discharge of their duties.

Without a permit, folks would still not be able to carry on the propety of others or, stragely, in their own vehicles (Section 13A-11-73)!

Along those lines, it's totally up to the sheriff as to not only IF he issues a license (though one questions whether a sheriff would be re-elected if he didn't issue them pretty regulary), but a sheriff can put pretty much any restrictions (i.e. "qualifications") he wants on a permit ("... may issue a qualified or unlimited license ...").

Another of our odd laws is no private ownership (for non-LEOs) of short-barreled rifles. Unless, of course, it's a machine gun. So, you can't chop down an H&K 94 into a semi-auto short-barrled rifle, but you CAN own an MP5.

Personally, I think we need to totally re-vamp the gun laws in Alabama. I don't look for it to happen anytime soon, though, unfortunately. I think guns in vehicles and perhaps OC should be a freebe. A CCW should be on a shall-issue basis and without any of the silly restrictions we find on some permits from some counties.

For that matter, sex offenders here have to have "SEX OFFENDER" stamped on their license. Let's have "CCW PERMITTED" put, as a matter of course on the license of anyone who is not prohibited from doing so and just call that our permit system. You can be a gun-hating pacifist but as you're BANNED from doing so, you still have the legal right. Convicted of a violent felony? Well, then that license WON'T have that endorsement and we LEOs will know what's up.

BUT that's just another of the ideas that ensure I'll never be a governor! LOL!!!!

Monkeytown · May 26th, 2009, 01:34 PM

This is a hot topic here in Alabama. There was an AG opinion written in 1984 regarding OC, link included in text below. In response to some other threads regarding the OC law in Alabama I sent the following to my State Rep. Barry Mask.

"Barry,

First of all, great speech the other day. You made me want to grab my musket and powder horn and go hunting some redcoats!! haha

I've recently gotten interested in carrying a handgun. I bought a Ruger LCP .380 and obtained my concealed carry permit in Elmore county. Especially since Obama has been in office I have been doing a alot of reading and research on gun laws in Alabama and the U.S. I wanted to say thanks to you and the rest of the House for passing HB225. Do you know when will it be voted on by the Senate?

I would also like to ask if you would consider looking at the current laws regarding open carrying of firearms in our great state. While all the research I have done indicates that Alabama is in fact, an open carry state, the current laws are confusing at best. Even local law enforcement agencies are unclear or formulate their own opinions that vary from department to department. The laws need to be A LOT clearer on open carry rights.

I would ask you to consider the following changes, amendments, or additions in a future House Bill:

1) In clear language. Any person may peaceably openly carry a firearm loaded or unloaded, while on foot, or in public, or in a vehicle.

2) Repeal the prohibition of carry near or participating in a demonstration (violates the 2nd and 1st amendments of the US constitution.)

3) Make Alabama a "Shall issue" State instead of a "May issue" State.

4) No permit needed to openly or concealed carry while in a vehicle, my vehicle is an extension of my home.

5) Ability to open carry and concealed carry without fear of arbitrary harassment.

6) Change/Adjust Disorderly Conduct law to read that a person cannot be charged with disorderly conduct for merely open carrying and peaceably open carrying does NOT cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm. Basically, disorderly conduct can't be used as a "catch all".

7) No local government, sheriff etc. can decide differently on state laws - no discretionary requirements.

8) Remove this, and any such wording on concealed carry permits: "This pistol permit does not permit you to carry a gun openly."

9) Law Enforcement Officers and Dispatchers should be trained on open carry calls that come in. Before even dispatching officers they should ask questions and determine if further response is needed. Peaceably openly carrying should not justify sending officers.

10) Peaceably openly carrying does not permit illegal search & seizure. Nor does it grant the right to revoke a concealed carry permit.

11) Alabama should recognize ALL other States concealed carry permits.

12) Any person peaceably, legally openly carrying shall not be harassed, detained, incarcerated, refused service or otherwise have their rights violated for merely openly carrying.

13) Remove 13a-11-52 from the code.

14) Law enforcement may NOT confiscate or run serial number checks for peaceably open carrying. Nor can they demand a Social Security Number.

I hope that you would consider most of these proposed changes as worthwhile and a great step forward in insuring our 2nd amendment rights. I have attached a pdf. file to this letter that includes some invaluable information I have gathered while researching this. You can also open it at this link: http://alabamagunrights.org/wp-conte...2/tri-fold.pdf and additional info here: http://www.opencarry.org/"

and got the following response...

"Thanks Shaun , I am glad you were there ….Yes , we are trying to get HB225 up for a vote in the senate ……as for “open carry “ I am for it and expect to have bill next year ….I will file your email ….Please stay in touch ….I am sooooo glad to see you so actively participating in the process . Stay engaged , Sincerely Barry"

Hopefully things will change in AL soon.

BTW - The text I sent to Rep. Mask was composed by Diagnosis at OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost!, not myself.

MT

Monkeytown · May 26th, 2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imthduke

It is not illegal to open carry, however, I will tell you that the local laws will trump whatever State law they want. In my county the sheriff is a personal friend and tells me that his people will disarm anyone open carrying. If you want to litigate that, then find you a lawyer that will take it, mark off lots of time for a drawn out court case, pay your lawyer mega bucks and take your best shot.

Let me know when you get your retirement money.

This is actually incorrect. The AL state constitution explicitly prohibits local and county governments from overrtulling the State laws regarding firearms, with the exception of issuing permits.

imthduke · May 26th, 2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

This is actually incorrect. The AL state constitution explicitly prohibits local and county governments from overrtulling the State laws regarding firearms, with the exception of issuing permits.

No...this is actually correct according the the Sheriff of St Clair county. And also, with that exception of issuing permits....the municipality that issues the permit will decide the perimeters of that permit. I did not say that it was right.....just what the Sheriff informed me as to what he would do....now if you want to test it....Contact Captain Garrett of the St. Clair Sheriff Office and make an appointment.

I just spoke to the Sheriff's office....Captain Garret that is second in command and actually runs the operation...He assured me again that their municipality would enforce their code....you will not be allowed to open carry on public property. Send me a PM....for his phone # if you wanna check the infor.

rmodel65 · May 26th, 2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imthduke

No...this is actually correct according the the Sheriff of St Clair county. And also, with that exception of issuing permits....the municipality that issues the permit will decide the perimeters of that permit. I did not say that it was right.....just what the Sheriff informed me as to what he would do....now if you want to test it....Contact Captain Garrett of the St. Clair Sheriff Office and make an appointment.

I just spoke to the Sheriff's office....Captain Garret that is second in command and actually runs the operation...He assured me again that their municipality would enforce their code....you will not be allowed to open carry on public property. Send me a PM....for his phone # if you wanna check the infor.

But since you dont need a permit to Open Carry in Alabama it doesnt matter what the parameters of the permit are when your are open carrying do they?

imthduke · May 27th, 2009, 09:35 AM

What I am saying....is the municipalities will enforce their code, however they want. I only know of the municipality of St. Clair county and they tell me many counties will do the same.

Here is what the Sheriff told me..."If I see a person open carrying on public property, I will ask if he has a CC permit. If he says yes, I will tell him to conceal his weapon. If he says, no I will tell him to take that weapon back on his own property. If he refuses, I will arrest him for disorderly conduct and take his weapon.

Here is the thing to remember...the man with the badge always has the high ground. Right or wrong it is what it is. Now, if you want to test that in court as others have said, and you have nothing better to do and bucks to spend....knock yourself out. I am just telling you...if you come to St Clair county...you will not be allowed to open carry. As a matter of fact, the Sheriff told me Alabama was not an open carry State. As I said before, Captain Garrett of the St. Clair Sheriff Department will be glad to discuss this with you and confirm this...I can give you his phone #.

Monkeytown · May 27th, 2009, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imthduke

What I am saying....is the municipalities will enforce their code, however they want. I only know of the municipality of St. Clair county and they tell me many counties will do the same.

Here is what the Sheriff told me..."If I see a person open carrying on public property, I will ask if he has a CC permit. If he says yes, I will tell him to conceal his weapon. If he says, no I will tell him to take that weapon back on his own property. If he refuses, I will arrest him for disorderly conduct and take his weapon.

Here is the thing to remember...the man with the badge always has the high ground. Right or wrong it is what it is. Now, if you want to test that in court as others have said, and you have nothing better to do and bucks to spend....knock yourself out. I am just telling you...if you come to St Clair county...you will not be allowed to open carry. As a matter of fact, the Sheriff told me Alabama was not an open carry State. As I said before, Captain Garrett of the St. Clair Sheriff Department will be glad to discuss this with you and confirm this...I can give you his phone #.

I referenced the Alabama State Constitution, below is the section of the code I meant to reference. It seems we may be on the same page. As you state above the Sheriff can arrest you for disorderly conduct as you stated, but not for carrying an exposed firearm. That is my point, municipalities, counties, etc. cannot overrule the State law regarding handguns.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/alabama.pdf

See the top of page 4.

I have no interest in talking to the Sheriff's Dept. in St. Clair as I will prolly never be there. I do not open carry anyway b/c the law is ambiguous at best. In regards to your text I put in bold above...I agree 100%!

May 13th, 2009, 05:35 PM	#11
imthduke Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sweet Home Alabama Posts: 265	Anyone that wants to "case test" the issue of open carry. If you will do it in St Clair County, just because I know the Sheriff, I can get you one of their very best cells while you are waiting to make bail __________________ "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits." http://www.treasureislandbedandbreakfast.com Ed Brown Kobra Carry/HK P7M8/HK P30/HK P2000SK/Sig P239SAS/Colt Defender/Colt Mustang Pocketlite/Colt 1911/Rohrbaugh R9/Kimber Covert Ultra II/S&W386/Walter PPK(1966)

May 26th, 2009, 01:34 PM	#15
Monkeytown Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 178	This is a hot topic here in Alabama. There was an AG opinion written in 1984 regarding OC, link included in text below. In response to some other threads regarding the OC law in Alabama I sent the following to my State Rep. Barry Mask. "Barry, First of all, great speech the other day. You made me want to grab my musket and powder horn and go hunting some redcoats!! haha I've recently gotten interested in carrying a handgun. I bought a Ruger LCP .380 and obtained my concealed carry permit in Elmore county. Especially since Obama has been in office I have been doing a alot of reading and research on gun laws in Alabama and the U.S. I wanted to say thanks to you and the rest of the House for passing HB225. Do you know when will it be voted on by the Senate? I would also like to ask if you would consider looking at the current laws regarding open carrying of firearms in our great state. While all the research I have done indicates that Alabama is in fact, an open carry state, the current laws are confusing at best. Even local law enforcement agencies are unclear or formulate their own opinions that vary from department to department. The laws need to be A LOT clearer on open carry rights. I would ask you to consider the following changes, amendments, or additions in a future House Bill: 1) In clear language. Any person may peaceably openly carry a firearm loaded or unloaded, while on foot, or in public, or in a vehicle. 2) Repeal the prohibition of carry near or participating in a demonstration (violates the 2nd and 1st amendments of the US constitution.) 3) Make Alabama a "Shall issue" State instead of a "May issue" State. 4) No permit needed to openly or concealed carry while in a vehicle, my vehicle is an extension of my home. 5) Ability to open carry and concealed carry without fear of arbitrary harassment. 6) Change/Adjust Disorderly Conduct law to read that a person cannot be charged with disorderly conduct for merely open carrying and peaceably open carrying does NOT cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm. Basically, disorderly conduct can't be used as a "catch all". 7) No local government, sheriff etc. can decide differently on state laws - no discretionary requirements. 8) Remove this, and any such wording on concealed carry permits: "This pistol permit does not permit you to carry a gun openly." 9) Law Enforcement Officers and Dispatchers should be trained on open carry calls that come in. Before even dispatching officers they should ask questions and determine if further response is needed. Peaceably openly carrying should not justify sending officers. 10) Peaceably openly carrying does not permit illegal search & seizure. Nor does it grant the right to revoke a concealed carry permit. 11) Alabama should recognize ALL other States concealed carry permits. 12) Any person peaceably, legally openly carrying shall not be harassed, detained, incarcerated, refused service or otherwise have their rights violated for merely openly carrying. 13) Remove 13a-11-52 from the code. 14) Law enforcement may NOT confiscate or run serial number checks for peaceably open carrying. Nor can they demand a Social Security Number. I hope that you would consider most of these proposed changes as worthwhile and a great step forward in insuring our 2nd amendment rights. I have attached a pdf. file to this letter that includes some invaluable information I have gathered while researching this. You can also open it at this link: http://alabamagunrights.org/wp-conte...2/tri-fold.pdf and additional info here: http://www.opencarry.org/" and got the following response... "Thanks Shaun , I am glad you were there ….Yes , we are trying to get HB225 up for a vote in the senate ……as for “open carry “ I am for it and expect to have bill next year ….I will file your email ….Please stay in touch ….I am sooooo glad to see you so actively participating in the process . Stay engaged , Sincerely Barry" Hopefully things will change in AL soon. BTW - The text I sent to Rep. Mask was composed by Diagnosis at OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost!, not myself. MT __________________ "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." Benjamin Franklin Steps in the stripping of State's Rights/Sovereignty 1. War of Northern Agression 2. Coersion to ratify the 14th Amendment 3. Ratified 17th Amendment

May 27th, 2009, 09:35 AM	#19
imthduke Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sweet Home Alabama Posts: 265	What I am saying....is the municipalities will enforce their code, however they want. I only know of the municipality of St. Clair county and they tell me many counties will do the same. Here is what the Sheriff told me..."If I see a person open carrying on public property, I will ask if he has a CC permit. If he says yes, I will tell him to conceal his weapon. If he says, no I will tell him to take that weapon back on his own property. If he refuses, I will arrest him for disorderly conduct and take his weapon. Here is the thing to remember...the man with the badge always has the high ground. Right or wrong it is what it is. Now, if you want to test that in court as others have said, and you have nothing better to do and bucks to spend....knock yourself out. I am just telling you...if you come to St Clair county...you will not be allowed to open carry. As a matter of fact, the Sheriff told me Alabama was not an open carry State. As I said before, Captain Garrett of the St. Clair Sheriff Department will be glad to discuss this with you and confirm this...I can give you his phone #. __________________ "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits." http://www.treasureislandbedandbreakfast.com Ed Brown Kobra Carry/HK P7M8/HK P30/HK P2000SK/Sig P239SAS/Colt Defender/Colt Mustang Pocketlite/Colt 1911/Rohrbaugh R9/Kimber Covert Ultra II/S&W386/Walter PPK(1966)

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May 13th, 2009, 05:54 PM	#12
fox2102 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: vestavia hills, AL Posts: 131	Yeah i try to avoid open carry too. I have open carried a couple of times late at night at rest stops but it has lead to some issues with one of the secruity guards so now I go concealed all the time

May 22nd, 2009, 04:02 PM	#14
CeltKnight Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: An Outpost of Paradise Posts: 29	I know this is almost a dead thread now, but I thought I'd point out, even if we ever DO get open carry here (and it would be nice) there's the wee issue of this: Section 13A-11-52 Carrying pistol on premises not his own; who may carry pistol. Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control; but this section shall not apply to any sheriff or his deputy or police officer of an incorporated town or city in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or to United States marshal or his deputies, rural free delivery mail carriers in the discharge of their duties as such, bonded constables in the discharge of their duties as such, conductors, railway mail clerks and express messengers in the discharge of their duties. Without a permit, folks would still not be able to carry on the propety of others or, stragely, in their own vehicles (Section 13A-11-73)! Along those lines, it's totally up to the sheriff as to not only IF he issues a license (though one questions whether a sheriff would be re-elected if he didn't issue them pretty regulary), but a sheriff can put pretty much any restrictions (i.e. "qualifications") he wants on a permit ("... may issue a qualified or unlimited license ..."). Another of our odd laws is no private ownership (for non-LEOs) of short-barreled rifles. Unless, of course, it's a machine gun. So, you can't chop down an H&K 94 into a semi-auto short-barrled rifle, but you CAN own an MP5. Personally, I think we need to totally re-vamp the gun laws in Alabama. I don't look for it to happen anytime soon, though, unfortunately. I think guns in vehicles and perhaps OC should be a freebe. A CCW should be on a shall-issue basis and without any of the silly restrictions we find on some permits from some counties. For that matter, sex offenders here have to have "SEX OFFENDER" stamped on their license. Let's have "CCW PERMITTED" put, as a matter of course on the license of anyone who is not prohibited from doing so and just call that our permit system. You can be a gun-hating pacifist but as you're BANNED from doing so, you still have the legal right. Convicted of a violent felony? Well, then that license *WON'T* have that endorsement and we LEOs will know what's up. BUT that's just another of the ideas that ensure I'll never be a governor! LOL!!!!