Open carry - concealed carry - Page 2

puncho · August 21st, 2009, 11:36 PM

Depends on the LEO or situation on the accidental OC.

Miggy · August 31st, 2009, 12:42 AM

Mags · September 8th, 2009, 10:00 PM

Good question. I always wondered if i have my firearm in a regukar belt holster under my jacket and the go into a restaurant and remove my jacket to sit down for dinner, am I just going from CC to OC? I wouldnt consider that brandishing but who knows, I'm sure some people might become frightend or concerned. Any feedback on that type of scenerio?

Bunny · September 8th, 2009, 10:47 PM

I don't know about your specifics, but here in NC, we have OC/CC. There are certain places you may OC but NOT CC (police station, bank, etc) and certain places that you can't carry any firearms at all. I guess it depends where you are when you accidentally "flash" folks :)

My advice? Call up your CCW instructor and ask for the specifics, or see if they have an extra "State Laws Cheat Sheet" for you.

Jerseyguy · September 14th, 2009, 05:41 PM

Carrying openly or concealed has zero to do with intent, is what I have read. If you are reqd to carry concealed, as under HR 218-LEOSA or a permit, and you accidentally OC, you could be arrested and vice versa, but of course this depends upon the law of the jurisdiction you are in at the time.

sigpack · September 16th, 2009, 12:25 AM

You should always check the laws yourself and not depend upon forum advice by itself but as I understand it you would be fine in Kentucky. And you would not be brandishing since you were not pointing it at someone or waving it about in a threatening manner.

Mountaineer · September 16th, 2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaserRonin

The only time this would be a problem is if someone was under the impression you purposfully flashed your weapon at them. Now you are guilty of brandishing and in a world of hurt. Otherwise, if OC is legal, you just went from CC to OC, no problem. Alternatively, the CC is a safety net in case your OC falls underneath your jacket or shirt accidentally.

Edit: bear in mind I am not familiar with KY laws. I am not a lawyer and don't pretend to be on the internet (or elsewhere). Just speaking generally, and basing that on CO laws.

Michigan law is pretty clear on what Brandishing is. In a holster, can not be considered brandishing.

Quote:

BRANDISHING Opinion No. 7101 February 6, 2002: …In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions…..the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish." This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions…the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner." Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code. It is my opinion, therefore, that…by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public.

from: http : // miopencarry.weebly.com/

Mountaineer · September 16th, 2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mags

Good question. I always wondered if i have my firearm in a regukar belt holster under my jacket and the go into a restaurant and remove my jacket to sit down for dinner, am I just going from CC to OC? I wouldnt consider that brandishing but who knows, I'm sure some people might become frightend or concerned. Any feedback on that type of scenerio?

I don't CC and I'm not lawyer. My research led me to this from http : // miopencarry.weebly.com/

Added: Which applied to Michigan!

Quote:

Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.

“Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”

BOLD added by me.

Dal1Celt · September 16th, 2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miggy

Miggy,

That's a good one. Is that a recent or older portrait?

Rob P. · September 16th, 2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldLincoln

I live in CA where OC is illegal except in rural areas, but CC is allowed with permit. It hadn't occurred to me that if my shirt tail comes out and my weapon is inadvertently exposed that I would be violating the law. Can somebody please clarify?

In a nutshell, IF this happens, and you aren't aware of it, then yes, you are technically guilty of a violation of law. IF you become aware and retuck your shirt, then you are fine.

I mean, really, sometimes we just overthink things. What prosecutor will try to say you're guilty of OC a loaded firearm when it was the wind blowing your jacket open? What police officer is going to arrest you for it when he didn't see it? And, even if he DID see it, once you show your permit and explain don't you think the LEO is just going to warn you to be more careful?

August 31st, 2009, 12:42 AM	#12
Miggy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Miami-Dade, FL Posts: 6,243	__________________ You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming. Randy Cain. GunFreeZone.net

September 8th, 2009, 10:47 PM	#14
Bunny Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North Carolina - LKN Posts: 1,198	I don't know about your specifics, but here in NC, we have OC/CC. There are certain places you may OC but NOT CC (police station, bank, etc) and certain places that you can't carry any firearms at all. I guess it depends where you are when you accidentally "flash" folks :) My advice? Call up your CCW instructor and ask for the specifics, or see if they have an extra "State Laws Cheat Sheet" for you. __________________ Don't frisk me, I am the weapon. Sig Sauer P239 DAK (9mm) NRA Member & Pistol Instructor www.vanguardnc.com

September 14th, 2009, 05:41 PM	#15
Jerseyguy New Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 5	Carrying openly or concealed has zero to do with intent, is what I have read. If you are reqd to carry concealed, as under HR 218-LEOSA or a permit, and you accidentally OC, you could be arrested and vice versa, but of course this depends upon the law of the jurisdiction you are in at the time. __________________ v/r, Sheepdog Academy Helping to train those who protect and serve... www.SheepdogAcademy.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

August 21st, 2009, 11:36 PM	#11
puncho Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: South Posts: 381	Depends on the LEO or situation on the accidental OC.

September 8th, 2009, 10:00 PM	#13
Mags New Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: NH Posts: 6	Good question. I always wondered if i have my firearm in a regukar belt holster under my jacket and the go into a restaurant and remove my jacket to sit down for dinner, am I just going from CC to OC? I wouldnt consider that brandishing but who knows, I'm sure some people might become frightend or concerned. Any feedback on that type of scenerio?

September 16th, 2009, 12:25 AM	#16
sigpack Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Western Ky. Posts: 115	You should always check the laws yourself and not depend upon forum advice by itself but as I understand it you would be fine in Kentucky. And you would not be brandishing since you were not pointing it at someone or waving it about in a threatening manner.