TFA meeting: lets beat up on the OC guy - Page 3

Jmac00 · August 24th, 2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TN_Mike

Last Thursday (Aug 20) I went to the Shelby County (TN) TFA meeting (Tennessee Firearms Association). Every third Thursday we have it. It is a good time. We talk about gun laws and events here in West Tennessee.

Well, this meeting was a bit different. We had a speaker that we had not had before. A local law professor, lawyer and speaker. This guy is a piece of work I can tell you. His whole speech was basically telling us we should never subscribe to any gun magazines, don't visit gun related web sites, don't talk about guns and your knowledge of them and ammo. Really, he was telling us that he is a scum bag lawyer and he has represented scum bags who sue permit holders who have had to shoot in defense of self and that he grills the permit holders on their gun magazine reading, their internet activity as it pertains to guns and self defense and all sorts of other things. He even suggests that ranges and training institutions should re-name their courses to sound less scary. Don't call a class "tactical shotgun" but rather "home defense shotgun" to sound less aggressive. (I can see the logic, although small, in this)

Then he said that we here in Tennessee have to carry concealed and I couldn't take it any more. I interrupted his speech and told him he was wrong. Another man in the meeting actually spoke up as well. We explained that the permit is not a concealed carry permit but that open carry is 100% legal and I told him that I do it all the time. He rolled his eyes (I hate that

) and told me that I was foolish for doing so. He told me that he had ridden with the Memphis PD SWAT team and they loved putting what they call "Smart assed open carriers" on the ground for carrying their gun uncovered.

I told him that if that happens, it would be fine and I would surely take legal action after I was released for committing no crime. He again told me I was foolish. I kind of lost it and told him I would think that someone who is supposed to be a law professor and lawyer but does not even know that the TN permit is not a CCW permit shouldn't be calling anyone foolish.

Then the loud mouthed retired cop we have at the meetings decided to speak up and tell me that I would surely be the first one shot if I was in a store that got robbed. Mind you, he said this while wearing a "Shoot-me-first-vest" that had a light spot worn on the side where is fat arm rubs his pistol when he walks!

The end result was, it was a crappy meeting, with a lot of bad info presented by the speaker, info that I have seen refuted by the likes of nationally recognized experts like Massad Ayoob and Clint Smith in many articles and books. To top it off, I get beat up on by a few of the members for carrying openly when any self defense firearms organization such as the TFA should be focused on just getting as many people legally carrying regardless of the mode of carry, and I had a really bad time and am considering never going to another.

I used to have a link to the TFA home page in my signature, but no more. I just can't support them when they will have a speaker like this clown put me down because I choose to not be ashamed that I carry and do so openly!

I would suggest the TFA needs you more than ever. SOMEONE needs to step up to the plate and educate these people and it sounds like your just the guy for the task.

Now is NOT the time to back down, NOW is the time to go on offense. Do us all a favor and go---->

walvord · August 24th, 2009, 05:21 PM

Your group can now delete him from the speakers list. Good job standing up for yourself.

grady · August 24th, 2009, 07:28 PM

You did more to educate the group than the lawyer did.

It's easy for me to say this from the comfort of my chair, but I hope you go back and continue educating the others. I can understand if you don't want to go back, though.

Only you know whether it's worth it to you to help the group, or leave them to their own demise. Some people are beyond help, and then it only becomes a waste of time to try and help them.

TN_Mike · August 25th, 2009, 01:32 AM

I appreciate the kind words of support guys! I may go back to another meeting. It's a month away and will probably have cooled down by then.

It is just so disheartening to go to what is supposed to be a gun friendly group and then be told by the speaker, who is supposed to also be gun friendly, and some other members that how I choose to carry is the wrong way and I am foolish for doing so.

By the way, the speakers name is Professor Mike Roberts.
Mike Roberts

And this just in! (always wanted to say that) I emailed Massad Ayoob Friday night about this experience and explained what happened and what was said in the speech by the good "Professor" and I just got an email back from Massad himself. Below is the text of the email. It's short but I think it validates my concerns.

Quote:

From: massadayoob@aol.com <massadayoob@aol.com>

Re: Speaker

Wow, Mike...that guy doesn't seem to have any experience at all in this sort of case.

I don't recall any one articleof mine that touched all those bases, but I can tell you that you seem to recall my positions on these issues correctly.

Cordially,

Mas
massadayoob@aol.com

That's good enough for me.

ccw9mm · August 25th, 2009, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TN_Mike

To top it off, I get beat up on by a few of the members for carrying openly when any self defense firearms organization such as the TFA should be focused on just getting as many people legally carrying regardless of the mode of carry, and I had a really bad time and am considering never going to another.

Are there any "leaders" of this TFA organization? Seems to me they need to have their ears "bent" a little about the sanity of having anti-gunners being brought in as experts to discuss topics about which they have little little knowledge. This individual's biased opinions were in direct contravention of Tennessee law.

The good thing is, the schmuck doesn't run TFA. The ostensible "leaders" do. So, you've got a shot at helping them to pull the finger out. Seems to me you could line up a couple well-informed guests to come visit the next meeting, people who could help set the membership straight on how foolish the lawyer's (and his desciples') opinions were at a time when so much progress has been made against anti-gunners.

Chin up, Mike. You aren't the bad guy, here. I'll warrant, neither are these TFA "leaders," despite being taken in by the wolf in sheep's clothing. Time to find your own "sheep." You know ... a sheriff or two, a ranking police officer or two, a pro-gun attorney or two, folks who will recognize that this nascent TFA organization is going to head down the flusher of anti-ism if it's not turned around.

paramedic70002 · August 25th, 2009, 05:49 PM

Here's a Virginia firearms speakers group that you might convince to cross a state line to give you their expertise:

The Virginia Center for Public Safety

Dear Friends,

The Virginia Center for Public Safety would like to announce the addition of a Speakers Bureau to our advocacy work in gun violence prevention and reduction.

We are encouraged with the attention that gun violence prevention initiatives are gathering in this election year and would like to offer to you and any groups with which you work or volunteer, the opportunity for education on the many, many issues we research in our effort to keep Virginians safe from gun violence. These speakers are all volunteers and will gladly work with your group to find suitable & appropriate venues, times and programs to suit your requests. We will gladly come to any area of the state.

Here are just a few of the topics our volunteers can present:

Making Common Sense of the Second Amendment
Empowering Youth to Speak Out on Gun Violence
Gun Violence vs. Gospel Values
Massacre at Virginia Tech – A Wake-Up Call, One Mother’s Story
Gun Rights & Responsibility
Guns & Domestic Violence
A History of Gun Laws in Virginia
Microstamping & Gun Trafficking
A History of the Virginia Center for Public Safety

Additionally, board member Josh Horwitz is available to discuss his new book:
Guns, Democracy & the Insurrectionist Idea.

For your convenience, we've posted an easy-to-use request form on our Website.

Click HERE to go to the request form.

Many more details can be found on our Website: The Virginia Center for Public Safety. We are hopeful that all people concerned with the issue of gun violence will help us educate their fellow Virginians on ideas and proven methods to prevent these tragedies by scheduling one of our many speakers for your group or organization.

Please do hesitate to contact VACPS Board Member Lori Haas directly with your questions. She is happy to work with you in any way to facilitate to your requests. She can be reached by phone: (757) 423-8801 or by email at info@vacps.org

As always, the Virginia Center for Public Safety is grateful for your support and together we will do all we can to prevent and reduce gun violence in Virginia.

Sincerely,

Kaye Tice, President
The Virginia Center for Public Safety

mlr1m · August 25th, 2009, 08:01 PM

I would have expected better from this man, and those in charge who may have agreed with him. His attitude is what happened with the class 3 firearms. People willing to give up what they don't personally use.

The anti's know this and use it to their advantage. Doing things one bite at a time and they win in the long run. You can't keep anything by giving someone else's right away. It like eating an elephant. Go slowly one bite at a time an you will consume it all in time.

Michael

puncho · August 25th, 2009, 11:00 PM

I don't want to say this, but he might have had a few valid points. I learn from idiots, not try to educate them.

kellyII · August 26th, 2009, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puncho

I don't want to say this, but he might have had a few valid points. I learn from idiots, not try to educate them.

WHAT???? Are you for real

From what TnMike said, this guy is a complete dummy who didnt even know the laws of the state for which he was preaching..

I try to shy away from idiots, I find it hard to learn anything from morons and really dont want to either.. I find myself trying to educate myself from COMPONENT people who have the facts and know the issues at hand.. JMHO

Andy W. · August 26th, 2009, 09:22 AM

Mike, I certainly understand your not wanting to go back there. However, it may be better if you use this as an opportunity to educate the ignorant.

August 24th, 2009, 05:21 PM	#22
walvord Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: St. Charles County Missouri Posts: 971	Your group can now delete him from the speakers list. Good job standing up for yourself. __________________ "That government is best which governs least." — HENRY DAVID THOREAU Life Member NRA Member GOA \| CCRKBA \| SAF \| ARRL U.S. Army 1975-80

August 25th, 2009, 05:49 PM	#26
paramedic70002 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Franklin, VA Posts: 2,682	Here's a Virginia firearms speakers group that you might convince to cross a state line to give you their expertise: The Virginia Center for Public Safety Dear Friends, The Virginia Center for Public Safety would like to announce the addition of a Speakers Bureau to our advocacy work in gun violence prevention and reduction. We are encouraged with the attention that gun violence prevention initiatives are gathering in this election year and would like to offer to you and any groups with which you work or volunteer, the opportunity for education on the many, many issues we research in our effort to keep Virginians safe from gun violence. These speakers are all volunteers and will gladly work with your group to find suitable & appropriate venues, times and programs to suit your requests. We will gladly come to any area of the state. Here are just a few of the topics our volunteers can present: Making Common Sense of the Second Amendment Empowering Youth to Speak Out on Gun Violence Gun Violence vs. Gospel Values Massacre at Virginia Tech – A Wake-Up Call, One Mother’s Story Gun Rights & Responsibility Guns & Domestic Violence A History of Gun Laws in Virginia Microstamping & Gun Trafficking A History of the Virginia Center for Public Safety Additionally, board member Josh Horwitz is available to discuss his new book: Guns, Democracy & the Insurrectionist Idea. For your convenience, we've posted an easy-to-use request form on our Website. Click HERE to go to the request form. Many more details can be found on our Website: The Virginia Center for Public Safety. We are hopeful that all people concerned with the issue of gun violence will help us educate their fellow Virginians on ideas and proven methods to prevent these tragedies by scheduling one of our many speakers for your group or organization. Please do hesitate to contact VACPS Board Member Lori Haas directly with your questions. She is happy to work with you in any way to facilitate to your requests. She can be reached by phone: (757) 423-8801 or by email at info@vacps.org As always, the Virginia Center for Public Safety is grateful for your support and together we will do all we can to prevent and reduce gun violence in Virginia. Sincerely, Kaye Tice, President The Virginia Center for Public Safety __________________ Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But... Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

August 26th, 2009, 09:22 AM	#30
Andy W. Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: KY Posts: 816	Mike, I certainly understand your not wanting to go back there. However, it may be better if you use this as an opportunity to educate the ignorant. __________________ The Bill of Rights: Void where prohibited by law.

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August 24th, 2009, 07:28 PM	#23
grady VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 2,320	You did more to educate the group than the lawyer did. It's easy for me to say this from the comfort of my chair, but I hope you go back and continue educating the others. I can understand if you don't want to go back, though. Only you know whether it's worth it to you to help the group, or leave them to their own demise. Some people are beyond help, and then it only becomes a waste of time to try and help them.

August 25th, 2009, 08:01 PM	#27
mlr1m Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: okla Posts: 771	I would have expected better from this man, and those in charge who may have agreed with him. His attitude is what happened with the class 3 firearms. People willing to give up what they don't personally use. The anti's know this and use it to their advantage. Doing things one bite at a time and they win in the long run. You can't keep anything by giving someone else's right away. It like eating an elephant. Go slowly one bite at a time an you will consume it all in time. Michael

August 25th, 2009, 11:00 PM	#28
puncho Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: South Posts: 381	I don't want to say this, but he might have had a few valid points. I learn from idiots, not try to educate them.