Who cares how the sheep feels?!!! - Page 4

ccw9mm · October 1st, 2009, 10:58 PM

The moment I do anything outwardly threatening to anyone, I hope someone'll come 'round with a big, fat frying pan and clop me upside the head.

However, going outside with green socks, or jeans instead of slacks, or a jacket instead of a parka, or wearing a holster and life-saving defensive tool, or deciding to walk with four such similarly-clothed friends or alone ... NONE of these things is a threatening act.

Nobody has cause to dictate that I may not do any of these things, even if they are determined to be fearful without cause. Unfounded fear is irrelevant and unworthy as a consideration for me to alter what I'm wearing.

Society, on the other hand, has an abiding interest in curbing truly threatening behavior and cutting it out of our midst. That is something completely different, though. That is something wholly unrelated to what an upstanding person does when a person decides to be carrying life-saving gear.

I do care how the uninitiated, head-in-sand types feel, sure. I also hope they get adequate psychiatric attention sooner rather than later, so that they aren't a threat to others' well-being and safety.

However, being concerned for the level of their fears stops there. When such people make knee-jerk, fearful calls to the cavalry to have innocent, upstanding people cuffed-and-stuffed for nonsensical fears they have, then the law must put a stop to such things.

In such cases of unsubstantiated cuff-and-stuff, I feel lawsuits and extreme political pressure need to be brought to bear in order to force quick change to the system that allows such things to happen to otherwise upstanding people.

EvilMonk · October 2nd, 2009, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottabkiddin

JMO, I think that sentiment has proved over the years to not be a equally traveled two way street. Especially in times of uncertainty, a more ridged and defined stance on defensive matters should serve you better. JMO.

Don't get me wrong, my views on Defensive Matters is rather iron-clad.

I was speaking in terms of other political issues not regularly discussed on this forum.

My point is that we can all do with SOME open-mindedness when it comes to debate on such. An open mind has led to at least one of my friends (a self admitted "California Liberal") believing in the sanctity of the 2A.

A fact which may negate his above mentioned status, but I'm not heartless enough to point it out!

:@}

jahwarrior72 · October 2nd, 2009, 08:08 PM

i used to care; no longer. my safety is more important than some stranger's feelings. besides, in the the town i live in, my ethnicity is enough of an issue. when i get on an elevator, and the ladies in them grab their purses and press themselves to the other side of the elevator, i don't think a gun will much of a difference.

except for when they freak and call the police, of course.

BuckeyeEric · October 2nd, 2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theotherlis

I definitely care what the sheep think. I also think the strongest way to ensure gun rights are protected in this country is to convince as many people (voters) as possible of this - especially those on the other side of your political spectrum. (Or who would otherwise vote against 2A rights, for whatever reason)

The more people that agree guns are good, the better. It seems pretty simple to me.

This was explained perfectly! I am part of that "other side" and i socialize in those circles. I know what the feeling is concerning 2a issues....and ill tell you, there is a pro 2a movement taking place in the Democratic Party and i am very pleased to be encouraging it!

But, im also here to say that allot of ppl in my circle get really turned off by the "hard-line" approach concerning 2a as well. Just remember that the 2a is our "individual right" but its still requires a political approach in lieu of a "in your face" approach. Just my $0.02.

larefugee · October 2nd, 2009, 09:34 PM

People are afraid of getting this reaction:

OC presents an opportunity for the public to learn that guns are not inherently dangerous in the holsters of responsible citizens. If you're not doing anything wrong, then why by ashamed of it? Yes, you might get discriminated against, but so did blacks during segregation and their cause prevailed because it was just.

LongRider · October 12th, 2009, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TN_Mike

I do care how they (the sheeple) feel to an extent. I carry openly but I do it in the utmost responsible and safe manner. I use a level II security holster. I dress in a presentable manner and I am polite, even if someone were to have an adverse reaction to my openly carried firearm. I think of myself as an Ambassador of Open Carry to the uninformed. I have had interactions with people (mostly from a state other than Tennessee) who come from an anti mind set and have left after speaking to me with at least a different opinion of people who carry. It's because I didn't rant about my right to carry and how I didn't care if they liked it or not, even if that is exactly how I feel.

Bark'n is right, we may not agree with the sheeple, but they vote and are citizens of the USA as much as we are. To just treat them as scum just because they don't carry or don't support our right to do so isn't exactly civil or in our best interest.

Exactly well said. OC often gives us the chance to turn a sheep around. They do vote and often have never ever even seen a gun. Giving them a chance to meet a sane rational person with a gun helps them make an informed decision.

woodstock · October 13th, 2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ssmo

I am new to these boards. I have been reading old posts.

You are protecting yourself in the best way you see fit by the rights granted by the constitution.

As you read more posts, think on the fact that our rights are not "granted" by the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Our rights are guaranteed by those documents. We need to be clear on that when we discuss these issues. Too many antis really believe our rights are granted by the constitution and BoR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamRudolph

I CC instead of OC for the same reason that I don't go to restaurants without my shirt on. There's no moral reason not to do so, it's in a legal gray area, but I see no need to go out of my way to offend people.

OC is not "in a legal gray area" here in Virginia. There's no law against it, so it's completely, totally legal here. In fact, it's required here in restaurants where alcohol is served. If my neighbors become offended because I obey that law, that's their problem. Most of the time I CC, but sometimes OC is my best choice. I haven't had a confontation about it yet.

Colin · October 13th, 2009, 11:12 PM

You just need to look at Canadian gun laws to realize what can happen if you don't pay attention to what the "sheep" are doing or saying.

LongRider · October 14th, 2009, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodstock

As you read more posts, think on the fact that our rights are not "granted" by the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Our rights are guaranteed by those documents. We need to be clear on that when we discuss these issues. Too many antis really believe our rights are granted by the constitution and BoR.

To expand a little on your post if I may. The Bill of Rights enumerates (lists one by one) and protects our Inalienable Rights. Inalienable Rights are universal moral rights or natural rights. Rights granted us by GOD (or nature if you prefer). It is an important distinction over laws granted us by rule of law. Became attempts to subvert Inalienable Rights are in fact attempts to override GOD, nature and universal moral law. By definition insane and evil

Precision · October 14th, 2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottabkiddin

JMO, I think that sentiment has proved over the years to not be a equally traveled two way street. Especially in times of uncertainty, a more ridged and defined stance on defensive matters should serve you better. JMO.

The appropriate response is be nice.
Then upon further problems follow a tit for tat reality.

They are evil, show them evil
They are nice, be nicer.

Eventual most thing resolve themselves into both sides being nice (at least Pleasant)

The problem is by turning another cheek we often invite increased hostility towards ourselves. Only CCing when OC is legal counts as turning the other cheek. We don't want to offend them so we don't OC, but they feel perfectly fine in offending us by screeching when we OC.

TN Mike has the proper attitude. Be overly nice, polite and an ambassador. Right up until they become unruly, then let them know their acts are unacceptable in polite society.

As far as laws. We must be as aggressive as the anti's are and by doing so (now) we are seeing them being less aggressive in hopes of us being nice as well.

October 1st, 2009, 10:58 PM	#31
ccw9mm VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oregon USA Posts: 8,411	The moment I do anything outwardly threatening to anyone, I hope someone'll come 'round with a big, fat frying pan and clop me upside the head. However, going outside with green socks, or jeans instead of slacks, or a jacket instead of a parka, or wearing a holster and life-saving defensive tool, or deciding to walk with four such similarly-clothed friends or alone ... NONE of these things is a threatening act. Nobody has cause to dictate that I may not do any of these things, even if they are determined to be fearful without cause. Unfounded fear is irrelevant and unworthy as a consideration for me to alter what I'm wearing. Society, on the other hand, has an abiding interest in curbing truly threatening behavior and cutting it out of our midst. That is something completely different, though. That is something wholly unrelated to what an upstanding person does when a person decides to be carrying life-saving gear. I do care how the uninitiated, head-in-sand types feel, sure. I also hope they get adequate psychiatric attention sooner rather than later, so that they aren't a threat to others' well-being and safety. However, being concerned for the level of their fears stops there. When such people make knee-jerk, fearful calls to the cavalry to have innocent, upstanding people cuffed-and-stuffed for nonsensical fears they have, then the law must put a stop to such things. In such cases of unsubstantiated cuff-and-stuff, I feel lawsuits and extreme political pressure need to be brought to bear in order to force quick change to the system that allows such things to happen to otherwise upstanding people. __________________ Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it. Thoughts: Justifiable self defense. Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims? Deal with evil through strength. Affirm the good in Man through trust. NRA. GOA. OFF.

October 2nd, 2009, 08:08 PM	#33
jahwarrior72 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: the raggedy edge Posts: 1,047	i used to care; no longer. my safety is more important than some stranger's feelings. besides, in the the town i live in, my ethnicity is enough of an issue. when i get on an elevator, and the ladies in them grab their purses and press themselves to the other side of the elevator, i don't think a gun will much of a difference. except for when they freak and call the police, of course. __________________ *1 in 150 children are diagnosed with autism. two of them are mine.* http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=19644781

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October 2nd, 2009, 09:34 PM	#35
larefugee Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 220	People are afraid of getting this reaction: OC presents an opportunity for the public to learn that guns are not inherently dangerous in the holsters of responsible citizens. If you're not doing anything wrong, then why by ashamed of it? Yes, you might get discriminated against, but so did blacks during segregation and their cause prevailed because it was just.

October 13th, 2009, 11:12 PM	#38
Colin Distinguished Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,660	You just need to look at Canadian gun laws to realize what can happen if you don't pay attention to what the "sheep" are doing or saying.