TN_Mike

After watching the video a couple of times, I think the fellow who was OC handled it pretty well. I don't agree with the opinion that he is a moron nor do i think he was looking to cause any trouble. I think the LEo is another example of a police officer that thinks that no one but the cops should be allowed to walk around with a weapon and resented the fact that the OC'er did not just submit to his requests. But, once it sank in that he (the LEO) was about to or in the process of stepping in it big time, he decided to remove himself from the situation. That was probably the best thing he could have done.

My understanding is, and correct me if I am wrong, you do not need a permit to OC in NC, and he didn't have to have a DL with him as he was not operating a vehicle. The fact that the man videoing the incident was not the reason that the police were called in the first place is pretty obvious, and the mere fact that the guy walked up with a gun openly carried, 100% legal in NC, did not give the police officer any PC to start harassing him. I think the guy stood up for himself quite admirably.

Just because we choose to OC does not mean that we need to submit to any more unreasonable searches than the CC'er.

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A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -Barry Goldwater 1968

Thumper

What is legal to do and what is prudent are entirely two different things. While I am in favor of OCing, there are times and places where you can do more harm than good for the cause.

Making your point by shoving it down someone's throat usually isn't an effective way to change their view to yours!

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USMC 1968-1971

ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

"Don't go to stupid places, with stupid people, and do stupid things!"

TravisABQ

"Shoving it down someone's throat"?

That's a bit of an overdramatic description for someone, NOT disturbing the peace, and NOT doing anything legally actionable.

Was there screaming? Profanity? Threats? Hmm?

I have no doubt, the cop knew he had no basis for demanding a CCW license for the guy who was openly, legally, and peacefully carrying. If I carried openly, I might turn on a recording device myself when a cop came along with a bad attitude.

There were protests in California after that anti gay marriage referendum. Riots from what I saw. THAT is shoving down people's throat.

Bark'n

When push comes to shove, I believe most States have a law requiring a person to carry ID and to produce it when questioned by LEO's.

If a LEO can not identify a person he is questioning as a matter of a field investigation, I believe they can legally detain you until you have been identified.

Of course I am open to being corrected on this matter. But that is my understanding of the law in my State.

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-Bark'n
Semper Fi

"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, will prey on those of us who without one, would surely perish."

chiefjason

Bark'n, I think you have to figure out if the initial reason for approaching the guy was constitutional. If it was not then everything else falls apart. A legal request after an illegal stop would still be illegal, correct? Not completely sure on duty to show ID in NC. Showing ID has never been a sticking point for me.

The guy is treading on some thin ice I think. I posted the statute on another board for him that makes it illegal to be armed at a demonstration on a private healthcare facility. You kind of set yourself up for what the LEO's definition of demonstration and private healthcare facility are. IIRC the wording private healthcare facility was used to cover abortion clinics. Being on private property may cover his bases on this one. From everything I can gather he was with the group and that is why he was filming.

If anyone is interested.

14‑277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.GS_14-277.2

TravisABQ

A "demonstration"? That looked to be fewer total people than would sit at a table for 6 at Denny's. Signs? Chanting? Making themselves pests?

It also did not look like they were on private property either.

If these people were disorderly, or preventing anybody from going into the clinic, they would have been bundled, and trundled off to jail.

The cop realized he had a whole lot of nothing and he moved on.

retsupt99

First of all, I did not notice some big rally, only about a half-dozen individuals just standing around, so I can't say that this guy 'inserted' himself into some problem.

He was just standing around and he was not challenging the cops...he was recording the actions of the officer. This fellow did absolutely nothing to draw attentions to himself. The open carrying of a firearm is as legal as wearing shoes...should the cop have questioned him for wearing shoes?

I, for one, believe the officer was not aware of the law and that is dangerous for all concerned.

I've read many other threads that point out the "Let me see your papers please?" actions of 'out of line' LEO's and no one likes it...here is the same thing. What gives the officer the right to questions anyone doing something completely legal? Would that officer then have the right to stop me while I'm having coffee in a restaurant to hassle me?

It all boils down to the law...if the officer cannot articulate the problem factually, then he needs to be on his way. From the looks of the video, the officer did what he should have done in the first place...leave.

This same problem has arisen in several places (in several states) where PD's have overstepped their authority is just this way and it has proven to be a rather expensive venture for their city of employment.

I look at it this way. Yes, this guy questioned the authority of the cop, but if some of us don't do that once in a while, how will the cops ever learn their 'boundaries'...LEO's without boundaries is a dangerous thing (See Russia, China, Cuba, etc...). I mean no disrespect to any individuals working within law enforcement, but I'll bet those in law enforcement on this forum would not have found themselves in this same 'jar of deep kimchee'.

OMO, and I know that the opinion of many may vary on this topic.

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"That I cannot do."

"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."


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NRA Life Member

Samwolf

I was with the guy up until the LEO started to walk away and he kept following him saying "Am I being detained? Am I being detained right now".

IMHO, once the LEO walked away and he kept up the "Am I being detained" bit, he became a moron.

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Samwolf

"One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms."

-- Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, 1840

SleepingZ

Carrying a gun at an abortion (insert what word you want--gathering, protest, march) while it may be legal, would draw attention to you like going to a building fire, and carrying a gallon of gas around and a box of matches.

Both may be with-in the law, but most people with a working brain are going to wonder whats up with your conduct.

I have no problem with OC, but I wish (our) ambassadors for this cause would sometimes use better judgment. Several years back we had a shooting at a mall here, the LEO arrive, and didn't know what was going on, while it may be legal to open carry, do you think under those conditions it would be smart, no, not unlike OC at an abortion clinic gathering.

The LEO could have handled the OC guy better, and the OC guy should have walked away after the LEO turned his back to the OC guy and headed back to his car. (Was the LEO's tactics off a Little by turning your back to a guy carrying a gun that you had a confrontation with?)

Prime example of 2 wrongs not making a RIGHT.

Z

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9 out of 10 engineers agree that 1 out of 10 engineers are idiots.

BuckeyeEric

Wow You mean you can actually receive a ticket, court date, and possibly a fine for walking around without Id in Mo?