Gun Bearer Has Pointed Discussion With Police Officer - Page 5

kpw · October 18th, 2009, 04:54 PM

So let me get this straight. There are states that actually require you to carry ID when in public? If so, that is frightening to me.

Another question...why would anyone feel compelled to produce ID when you haven't done or been accused of any wrongdoing?

alelks · October 18th, 2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougwg

Ok, so owning guns and "Bearing" them is like being in the KKK?

Really not sure where you get that from my statement. It was a statement reflecting that just because something is legal doesn't mean it's always smart to do given the situation.

??????????????????????????????????????

Holger · October 18th, 2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alelks

Really not sure where you get that from my statement. It was a statement reflecting that just because something is legal doesn't mean it's always smart to do given the situation.

??????????????????????????????????????

I got the exact same thing from your post. You equated walking around at an event legally OCing with advocating white supremacy in a majority black neighborhood. Another poster said OCing was like walking around with the tools to commit a crime (arson).

While your point may or may not be valid, ANY statements that somehow paint gun advocates with the same brush as criminals and extremists hurt our cause.

Imagine this quote on a mediamatters.org: "I surf a gun-nut board to keep an eye on the right-extremists, and one of them even admitted that carrying a weapon anywhere near an abortion clinic was just like lynching black people! Another said open-carried tools of death were akin to matches and gasoline...a fire waiting to happen!"

Make sense what dougwg was trying to say now?

alelks · October 18th, 2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holger

I got the exact same thing from your post. You equated walking around at an event legally OCing with advocating white supremacy in a majority black neighborhood. Another poster said OCing was like walking around with the tools to commit a crime (arson).

While your point may or may not be valid, ANY statements that somehow paint gun advocates with the same brush as criminals and extremists hurt our cause.

Imagine this quote on a mediamatters.org: "I surf a gun-nut board to keep an eye on the right-extremists, and one of them even admitted that carrying a weapon anywhere near an abortion clinic was just like lynching black people! Another said open-carried tools of death were akin to matches and gasoline...a fire waiting to happen!"

Make sense what dougwg was trying to say now?

Respectfully it doesn't.

I stand by my statements. It's just an analogy stating that just because something is legal doesn't always make it smart to do. In no way am I advocating white supremest so please don't even think about equating me to those losers.

I guess it's hard to read intentions into forum posts but that is the intent of the post.

Holger · October 18th, 2009, 05:10 PM

Okay. I'll just say that exercising a legal right to open carry should not carry the same social stigma (as well as ignorance) of being in the Klan. Seems that you think it does.

I agree that legal doesn't always mean smart. Perhaps you should find a new analogy.

Eirerogue · October 18th, 2009, 05:12 PM

If I were the responding officer to a call for an assembly at an arbortion clinic...where's my head?

Let's see...there's been numerous shootings of abortion doctors....civil and criminal disturbances at some as well. So, I see an OC fellow and ask for ID.

Now, if you bear with me. Let's say I don't ask for ID and I see the assembly and the OCer. AND, I leave. It's all cool.

10 minutes later, Dr. # leaves the clinic and is shot to death by the OCer. I'm not debating who had the CR's to carry or coming down on OCers. I'm saying that the City of # that employs this officer will be sued for millions and in this day and age, probably collect.

The officer KNEW that that abortion clinics had previous issues, that this clinic had an assembly out front AND that there was at least one citizen OPENLY carrying a firearm. Do you think the 2A is going to be considered in the lawsuit against the city and the individual officer?

While I'm supportive of the desires of folks wanting to OC, I'm also very much aware of civil liabilities imposed by society these days.

It's something to consider as you pick apart the officer and OC actions of this video.

alelks · October 18th, 2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holger

Okay. I'll just say that exercising a legal right to open carry should not carry the same social stigma (as well as ignorance) of being in the Klan. Seems that you think it does.

I agree that legal doesn't always mean smart. Perhaps you should find a new analogy.

I equate it to common sense and the guy in this case didn't use good common sense in my opinion. It really has nothing to do with stigma as the analogy was about doing something that wasn't smart. I wasn't equating him to the KKK.

If for some reason someone took it the other way i sincerely apologize.

kpw · October 18th, 2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eirerogue

If I were the responding officer to a call for an assembly at an arbortion clinic...where's my head?

Let's see...there's been numerous shootings of abortion doctors....civil and criminal disturbances at some as well. So, I see an OC fellow and ask for ID.

Now, if you bear with me. Let's say I don't ask for ID and I see the assembly and the OCer. AND, I leave. It's all cool.

10 minutes later, Dr. # leaves the clinic and is shot to death by the OCer. I'm not debating who had the CR's to carry or coming down on OCers. I'm saying that the City of # that employs this officer will be sued for millions and in this day and age, probably collect.

The officer KNEW that that abortion clinics had previous issues, that this clinic had an assembly out front AND that there was at least one citizen OPENLY carrying a firearm. Do you think the 2A is going to be considered in the lawsuit against the city and the individual officer?

While I'm supportive of the desires of folks wanting to OC, I'm also very much aware of civil liabilities imposed by society these days.

It's something to consider as you pick apart the officer and OC actions of this video.

Doesn't make sense. What if he does ID him, finds nothing wrong or illegal and leaves? Is he still liable because he didn't detain someone for doing nothing illegal at that time?
Evidently, it is not required to produce ID without a stated RAS or PC in NC. Demanding such was where the officer went wrong and he knew it.

jbum · October 18th, 2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chorizo

Sometimes exercising your rights can get a bit dicey if you don't use common sense and be sensitive about it.

Thoughts like these are what is wrong with our country now. Exercising your rights should never be dicey that is why the IDOT cop backed off.

Nova · October 18th, 2009, 06:03 PM

I think the OCer could've been more respectful and less agitating. He had a right to do what he was doing and the LEO eventually realized that. LEOs don't like seeing guns, for good reason.

I have the right to smoke Hookah outside (I don't smoke it though), but that doesn't mean some LEO would be wrong if he asked me some questions about it, sniffed around. It looks like suspicious behavior. If I were a LEO and "a man with a gun" was walking around outside an abortion clinic, I'd be pretty suspicious of that.

Nevermind the fact that there are murders occurring everyday inside the abortion clinic. But I won't derail another thread....

October 18th, 2009, 04:54 PM	#41
kpw Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: PA Posts: 1,116	So let me get this straight. There are states that actually require you to carry ID when in public? If so, that is frightening to me. Another question...why would anyone feel compelled to produce ID when you haven't done or been accused of any wrongdoing? __________________ "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." - -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

October 18th, 2009, 06:03 PM	#50
Nova Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 190	I think the OCer could've been more respectful and less agitating. He had a right to do what he was doing and the LEO eventually realized that. LEOs don't like seeing guns, for good reason. I have the right to smoke Hookah outside (I don't smoke it though), but that doesn't mean some LEO would be wrong if he asked me some questions about it, sniffed around. It looks like suspicious behavior. If I were a LEO and "a man with a gun" was walking around outside an abortion clinic, I'd be pretty suspicious of that. Nevermind the fact that there are murders occurring everyday inside the abortion clinic. But I won't derail another thread.... __________________ Springfield XD45 4" 13+1

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October 18th, 2009, 05:10 PM	#45
Holger Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 260	Okay. I'll just say that exercising a legal right to open carry should not carry the same social stigma (as well as ignorance) of being in the Klan. Seems that you think it does. I agree that legal doesn't always mean smart. Perhaps you should find a new analogy.

October 18th, 2009, 05:12 PM	#46
Eirerogue Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 202	If I were the responding officer to a call for an assembly at an arbortion clinic...where's my head? Let's see...there's been numerous shootings of abortion doctors....civil and criminal disturbances at some as well. So, I see an OC fellow and ask for ID. Now, if you bear with me. Let's say I don't ask for ID and I see the assembly and the OCer. AND, I leave. It's all cool. 10 minutes later, Dr. # leaves the clinic and is shot to death by the OCer. I'm not debating who had the CR's to carry or coming down on OCers. I'm saying that the City of # that employs this officer will be sued for millions and in this day and age, probably collect. The officer KNEW that that abortion clinics had previous issues, that this clinic had an assembly out front AND that there was at least one citizen OPENLY carrying a firearm. Do you think the 2A is going to be considered in the lawsuit against the city and the individual officer? While I'm supportive of the desires of folks wanting to OC, I'm also very much aware of civil liabilities imposed by society these days. It's something to consider as you pick apart the officer and OC actions of this video.