THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE!!! Bar-Sto barrels

floridaguy911 · September 12th, 2006, 09:55 PM

Nice headline huh.. gotcha!

Now that I have your attention. I have a question. Im looking at getting a Bar-Sto barrel. I believe its probably one of the better, more accurate ones. If you have a different opinion, state your reasoning or beliefs, and the brand of which you believe in

The real dilemma is this, Im not sure what the difference is between "semi drop-in" and "Match grade". I DO understand match grade is better. But why "semi" drop in? What will I need done to my weapon or barrel to accomodate a semi drop in, or a match grade barrel? Seems semi notes that its not just a drop in.. so if modifications are needed on both barrels.. why choose the lesser of the two?

(For G27)

Tubby45 · September 12th, 2006, 11:54 PM

The way I understand it a semi drop in means you might need to fit the barrel hood to the slide a little bit, usually in the way of sanding or filing it down.

Match grade barrels are for shooting matches. If you aren't shooting matches, you don't need a match grade barrel. Use match grade barrels for competition. The accuracy gained with a match grade barrel will give you no noticable advantage if you have to shoot someone. If you miss with a stock barrel, a match grade barrel wouldn't have done diddly squat at 6 feet.

IMO, you are better off getting a KKM barrel. They are $165 from lonewolfdist.com I believe and are already fitted to a slide so you don't need to fit it to your gun. Just swap them out and you are all set.

floridaguy911 · September 13th, 2006, 12:14 AM

Quick Re: I have thought about shooting matches after I enroll in a formal training class I found offered locally by a man named Randy Cain. Even if I didnt, I would still want my weapon to be absolutely as accurate as possible. I know it wont make a difference at 8 feet by much, but even as fun shooting, further out -would want the weapon to be as accurate as possible.

QKShooter · September 13th, 2006, 01:18 AM

Of Course - Bar Sto barrels are the ultra top of the line barrels & are a great choice for a top quality match grade barrel.
In my opinion you are never going to squeeze that last maximum amount of accuracy out of a Bar Sto barrel unless it is fully and professionally fit to the slide & frame and w/ a match grade fit bushing - etc.
Properly doing a "true professional fit" of a Match Grade Bar Sto barrel at home is probably a bit beyond the scope of even the above average home gunsmith.
Honestly I believe that Bar Sto is really much more barrel than is necessary for a defensive to mid-pro-match firearm.
You should also be aware that Bar Sto barrel chambers are machined to extremely tight tolerances and just do not handle some budget and reloaded ammo too very well...unless the chamber gets reamed out and opened a bit.
My choice for a defensive/semi-match firearm barrel would probably be an ED BROWN Drop In Barrel with bushing.
That is a very high quality very accurate and properly hardened & Cryogenic Treated barrel with a bit more beef than a Colt Factory Standard Barrel and you should have no trouble installing it at home for an above average fit.

Remember that a properly fit standard Colt Factory barrel with a good tight bushing & a match link...slightly oversize slide stop pin and a good solid fit at the barrel locking lugs will shoot tighter than 99% of shooters can ever take advantage of.

So...unless you're going to full blown ultra match grade custom...not sure if you really need a Bar Sto or the added labor cost to pro smith fit it.

sheepdog · September 13th, 2006, 07:12 AM

Save the money on the barrel and take as many of Randy Cain's
classes as you can. He can do more for your shooting than a barrel!

RSSZ · September 13th, 2006, 07:52 AM

I don't understand what kind of competition we are talking about here. Maybe "target"?

For our purposes all but the very worse made/fitted bbl will do what we need done. I have seen bunches of stock bbls.,slides,links,and bushings,all with 20,000rds thru them, that will outshoot all but the very best IDPA and IPPSC shooters. Why...?...because of the training of the person that is shooting that weapon.

IMO you cannot make up for lack of training with "better" equipment or more expensive equipment. Although it is fun to talk about what we got/put in our weapons.

I am not trained to the same level as some of the people that I shoot with. How can I prove it......just hand them my weapon. ---------

Blackhawk6 · September 13th, 2006, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSSZ

IMO you cannot make up for lack of training with "better" equipment or more expensive equipment.

Well said.

floridaguy911 · September 13th, 2006, 12:51 PM

Easy guys! I agree that better equipment will not even come close to having the advantages of training. We ALL agree on this. That is the reason I am taking the Randy Cain class, and probably the two classes that follow the Tactical Handgun 101 that I will be taking in October. The matches I spoke of are indeed IDPA, or even target practice. YES, the weapon I speak of is a subcompact SD firearm. However, I like to even have SD weapons as accurate as possible for times I am not using them for SD. (Granted- training is better; training and having better equipment should indeed be even better)

Blackhawk6 · September 13th, 2006, 02:21 PM

I have no aversion to modifying equipment. But such modifications should be driven by necessity. Glocks have a stellar reputation for reliability but often begin choking when someone tinkers with them to "fix" non-existant problems. The question anyone contemplating any modification should ask is "What equipment deficiency does this modification correct?"

In your case, you are contemplating installing a match-grade barrel, presumably in an effort to increase accuracy. The first question is "Why?" What accuracy requirement is your equipment not fulfilling currently? IDPA does not require match-grade accuracy. The highest-scoring area on the target is 8" in diameter. Rare are the firearms of reputable manufacture that can not meet this standard at 25 yards and most IDPA stages are shot at considerably less distance.

The next question you should ask is "Am I sure it is my equipment and not me?" Is your equipment really the cause of the unsatisafactory accuracy currently being delivered or are you incapable of extracting all of the accuracy your equipment is capable of delivering? How accurate is your Glock 27 currently? Keep in mind that whatever the perfomance of the stock barrel, the short sight radius and caliber are working against you as well.

What some of us are trying to tell you is that it is foolish to potentially compromise reliability in order to obtain unnecessary performance or "correct" a shooter-induced deficiency that is best addressed through practice. If you insist on installing a match-grade barrel in your sub-compact Glock, I wish you the best of luck.

floridaguy911 · September 13th, 2006, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawk6

I have no aversion to modifying equipment. But such modifications should be driven by necessity. Glocks have a stellar reputation for reliability but often begin choking when someone tinkers with them to "fix" non-existant problems. The question anyone contemplating any modification should ask is "What equipment deficiency does this modification correct?"

In your case, you are contemplating installing a match-grade barrel, presumably in an effort to increase accuracy. The first question is "Why?" What accuracy requirement is your equipment not fulfilling currently? IDPA does not require match-grade accuracy. The highest-scoring area on the target is 8" in diameter. Rare are the firearms of reputable manufacture that can not meet this standard at 25 yards and most IDPA stages are shot at considerably less distance.

The next question you should ask is "Am I sure it is my equipment and not me?" Is your equipment really the cause of the unsatisafactory accuracy currently being delivered or are you incapable of extracting all of the accuracy your equipment is capable of delivering? How accurate is your Glock 27 currently? Keep in mind that whatever the perfomance of the stock barrel, the short sight radius and caliber are working against you as well.

What some of us are trying to tell you is that it is foolish to potentially compromise reliability in order to obtain unnecessary performance or "correct" a shooter-induced deficiency that is best addressed through practice. If you insist on installing a match-grade barrel in your sub-compact Glock, I wish you the best of luck.

***In your case, you are contemplating installing a match-grade barrel, presumably in an effort to increase accuracy. The first question is "Why?" What accuracy requirement is your equipment not fulfilling currently? IDPA does not require match-grade accuracy. The highest-scoring area on the target is 8" in diameter. Rare are the firearms of reputable manufacture that can not meet this standard at 25 yards and most IDPA stages are shot at considerably less distance. ***

-----I was inquiring about a 'match grade' barrel because I THOUGHT they were largely better than a drop in or semi-drop in- However, I failed to realize a match grade barrel is only as good as its surrounding components, especially reliant on other match grade components. So that has improved my insight on the situation considerably. I will NOT be putting a match grade barrel in, and thoroughly appreciate everyones thoughts.

***The next question you should ask is "Am I sure it is my equipment and not me?" Is your equipment really the cause of the unsatisafactory accuracy currently being delivered or are you incapable of extracting all of the accuracy your equipment is capable of delivering? How accurate is your Glock 27 currently? Keep in mind that whatever the perfomance of the stock barrel, the short sight radius and caliber are working against you as well.***

-----I believe, for the most part, that it is NOT my equipment Blackhawk. (Maybe a TINY BIT, but for the most part no)The gun shoots reasonably well for a Subcomp. I believe the majority is me. I have a tell tale 7 O'clock pull down and to the left slightly, (at approx. 7-14yards, aimed dead center, the bullets usually land about 1-2" [+/- 1 inch] down and to the left.) that I just can NOT figure out for the life of me how to correct it, this is what initially spurred me into formal training. HOWEVER. Since I am seeking formal training I thought that WITH TRAINING, also improving my barrel would increase my progress in the longrun as far as accuracy accomplishments go. To directly answer one of your questions- I believe I am not capable of fully extracting the accuracy that my weapon offers at this time, but thought a barrel would supplement my accuracy after training occurs.
This particular quote made a lot of sense to me, and I appreciate it.

BLACKHAWK6- "Glocks have a stellar reputation for reliability but often begin choking when someone tinkers with them to "fix" non-existant problems."

So, in closing. Would having a semi-drop in or drop in barrel, also aid in unreliability? Or were those comments specifically tailored for the match grade issue? (Should I even be concerned with the barrel and its rifling??!)

I have heard and read that depending on the barrels rifling shape and method of performing the rifling( Hex, button, and the other one with troughs and peaks.. cut broach or something) has some effect on accuracy of said barrel. This is part of the story that interested me into researching the issue this far.

RSSZ · September 13th, 2006, 03:56 PM

Let me just state "for the record" >>> I have lots of weapons that will simply outshoot me. I have several weapons that, as I get older,I find that I will never be trained well enough that I can bring out the full potential of these weapons.

To the above weapons I say,"I'll surely come as close to you as my years will allow me to".

This to me....... is reality. ---------

Rob72 · September 13th, 2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floridaguy911

***So, in closing. Would having a semi-drop in or drop in barrel, also aid in unreliability? Or were those comments specifically tailored for the match grade issue? (Should I even be concerned with the barrel and its rifling??!)

flguy, I've owned and shot 5 different Glocks, all 9mm. If this is a CC piece- you will notice no appreciable gain in accuracy over stock. Glock makes an excellent barrel, and essentially the only aftermarket "pluses" are cut rifling and a tighter chamber. I don't shoot lead, and I'm not worried about my Corbon load's nose engaging .00255" of the rifling, so......... Ixnay on the barrel-ay.

The money could be spent for steel sights (night sights, if you feel the need), 8 or so mags, a few spare parts, and ammo.

If, after some private training, you're still having some off-line shots, you might consider a grip-reduction. I would suspect that range time will cure your problem, but...... Of course, if several other shooters all experience the same pattern, you probably have a "gun problem", but I 've never heard of anything like that with Glock.

Blackhawk6 · September 13th, 2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floridaguy911

The gun shoots reasonably well for a Subcomp. I believe the majority is me. I have a tell tale 7 O'clock pull down and to the left slightly, (at approx. 7-14yards, aimed dead center, the bullets usually land about 1-2" [+/- 1 inch] down and to the left.) that I just can NOT figure out for the life of me how to correct it, this is what initially spurred me into formal training.

I think that once you get a bit more experience under your belt and fine tune your shooting, you are going to discover that your Glock 27 has all the accuracy you need. If it does not, then that would be the appropriate time to invest in a new barrel or some other modification. Truthfully, I would be surprised if your Glock would not deliver sub-4" groups at 25 yards with good ammunition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by floridaguy911

Would having a semi-drop in or drop in barrel, also aid in unreliability? Or were those comments specifically tailored for the match grade issue?

Match-grade accuracy and reliability are not mutually exclusive. It is possible (and usually expensive) to have an extremely accurate and reliable firearm. However, any time you replace or adjust the internals of your pistol (barrels, springs, firing pins, etc.) you run the risk of creating a problem.

QKShooter · September 13th, 2006, 10:13 PM

My Apologies To All Above.

I totally missed that "For A G27"

Whoops! I wrongly assumed Match Grade Barrel for a Colt pattern pistol.

Disregard the above QKShooter post.

The advantage of an aftermarket barrel for a Glock would be to be able to shoot Lead bullets. If you're not shooting Lead then I would stay with the factory barrel.

QKShooter · September 13th, 2006, 10:31 PM

Shooting Low & Left

Trigger Control. Work on that.
Usually Low & to the Left is caused by poor trigger control due to the fact that you are anticipating recoil and your shots.

Helpful Suggestions:

> Invest in better hearing protection.
> Get a Medium Strength GripMaster and use it daily.
> Buy a Heavy Tungsten Guide Rod for your pistol.

I'll sure bet you'll see improved shooting results.

hsuCowboy98 · September 14th, 2006, 09:04 AM

As my Grandfather always said, "If it aint broke, dont fix it".

rocky · September 14th, 2006, 11:31 AM

I would be worried about reliability with a drop in /match part of any kind. Once you start changing parts, it seems the failure rate increases.

KC135 · September 14th, 2006, 05:35 PM

If you cannot outshoot your gun, a new barrel is not needed.

Example, if you can shoot a 3" group at fifty yards with a match handgun that will shoot a 1.5" group from a Ramson Rest, then if your carry gun shoots a 6" group at same range, a barrel may be in order.

Otherwise, train and shoot a lot of ammo.

September 12th, 2006, 09:55 PM	#1
floridaguy911 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 487	THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE!!! Bar-Sto barrels Nice headline huh.. gotcha! Now that I have your attention. I have a question. Im looking at getting a Bar-Sto barrel. I believe its probably one of the better, more accurate ones. If you have a different opinion, state your reasoning or beliefs, and the brand of which you believe in The real dilemma is this, Im not sure what the difference is between "semi drop-in" and "Match grade". I DO understand match grade is better. But why "semi" drop in? What will I need done to my weapon or barrel to accomodate a semi drop in, or a match grade barrel? Seems semi notes that its not just a drop in.. so if modifications are needed on both barrels.. why choose the lesser of the two? (For G27) __________________ N.R.A. Member G.O.A. Member Unified Sportsmen of Florida Member

September 12th, 2006, 11:54 PM	#2
Tubby45 VIP Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Making ammo. Posts: 2,495	The way I understand it a semi drop in means you might need to fit the barrel hood to the slide a little bit, usually in the way of sanding or filing it down. Match grade barrels are for shooting matches. If you aren't shooting matches, you don't need a match grade barrel. Use match grade barrels for competition. The accuracy gained with a match grade barrel will give you no noticable advantage if you have to shoot someone. If you miss with a stock barrel, a match grade barrel wouldn't have done diddly squat at 6 feet. IMO, you are better off getting a KKM barrel. They are $165 from lonewolfdist.com I believe and are already fitted to a slide so you don't need to fit it to your gun. Just swap them out and you are all set. __________________ Freakshow Manufacturing LLC Ammunition - Machine Guns - Silencers Last edited by Tubby45; September 13th, 2006 at 12:00 AM.. Reason: Forgot some stuff.

September 13th, 2006, 12:14 AM	#3
floridaguy911 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 487	Quick Re: I have thought about shooting matches after I enroll in a formal training class I found offered locally by a man named Randy Cain. Even if I didnt, I would still want my weapon to be absolutely as accurate as possible. I know it wont make a difference at 8 feet by much, but even as fun shooting, further out -would want the weapon to be as accurate as possible. __________________ N.R.A. Member G.O.A. Member Unified Sportsmen of Florida Member

September 13th, 2006, 01:18 AM	#4
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Off Of The X Posts: 24,298	Of Course - Bar Sto barrels are the ultra top of the line barrels & are a great choice for a top quality match grade barrel. In my opinion you are never going to squeeze that last maximum amount of accuracy out of a Bar Sto barrel unless it is fully and professionally fit to the slide & frame and w/ a match grade fit bushing - etc. Properly doing a "true professional fit" of a Match Grade Bar Sto barrel at home is probably a bit beyond the scope of even the above average home gunsmith. Honestly I believe that Bar Sto is really much more barrel than is necessary for a defensive to mid-pro-match firearm. You should also be aware that Bar Sto barrel chambers are machined to extremely tight tolerances and just do not handle some budget and reloaded ammo too very well...unless the chamber gets reamed out and opened a bit. My choice for a defensive/semi-match firearm barrel would probably be an ED BROWN Drop In Barrel with bushing. That is a very high quality very accurate and properly hardened & Cryogenic Treated barrel with a bit more beef than a Colt Factory Standard Barrel and you should have no trouble installing it at home for an above average fit. Remember that a properly fit standard Colt Factory barrel with a good tight bushing & a match link...slightly oversize slide stop pin and a good solid fit at the barrel locking lugs will shoot tighter than 99% of shooters can ever take advantage of. So...unless you're going to full blown ultra match grade custom...not sure if you really need a Bar Sto or the added labor cost to pro smith fit it. __________________ Liberty/Tyranny ___________________________ Ain't That A Shame! Be Happy! *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OG3u...1&feature=fvwp*

September 13th, 2006, 12:51 PM	#8
floridaguy911 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 487	Easy guys! I agree that better equipment will not even come close to having the advantages of training. We ALL agree on this. That is the reason I am taking the Randy Cain class, and probably the two classes that follow the Tactical Handgun 101 that I will be taking in October. The matches I spoke of are indeed IDPA, or even target practice. YES, the weapon I speak of is a subcompact SD firearm. However, I like to even have SD weapons as accurate as possible for times I am not using them for SD. (Granted- training is better; training and having better equipment should indeed be even better) __________________ N.R.A. Member G.O.A. Member Unified Sportsmen of Florida Member

September 13th, 2006, 07:12 AM	#5
sheepdog Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 594	Save the money on the barrel and take as many of Randy Cain's classes as you can. He can do more for your shooting than a barrel!

September 13th, 2006, 07:52 AM	#6
RSSZ Distinguished Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,847	I don't understand what kind of competition we are talking about here. Maybe "target"? For our purposes all but the very worse made/fitted bbl will do what we need done. I have seen bunches of stock bbls.,slides,links,and bushings,all with 20,000rds thru them, that will outshoot all but the very best IDPA and IPPSC shooters. Why...?...because of the training of the person that is shooting that weapon. IMO you cannot make up for lack of training with "better" equipment or more expensive equipment. Although it is fun to talk about what we got/put in our weapons. I am not trained to the same level as some of the people that I shoot with. How can I prove it......just hand them my weapon. ---------

September 13th, 2006, 02:21 PM	#9
Blackhawk6 Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Southeast Posts: 370	I have no aversion to modifying equipment. But such modifications should be driven by necessity. Glocks have a stellar reputation for reliability but often begin choking when someone tinkers with them to "fix" non-existant problems. The question anyone contemplating any modification should ask is "What equipment deficiency does this modification correct?" In your case, you are contemplating installing a match-grade barrel, presumably in an effort to increase accuracy. The first question is "Why?" What accuracy requirement is your equipment not fulfilling currently? IDPA does not require match-grade accuracy. The highest-scoring area on the target is 8" in diameter. Rare are the firearms of reputable manufacture that can not meet this standard at 25 yards and most IDPA stages are shot at considerably less distance. The next question you should ask is "Am I sure it is my equipment and not me?" Is your equipment really the cause of the unsatisafactory accuracy currently being delivered or are you incapable of extracting all of the accuracy your equipment is capable of delivering? How accurate is your Glock 27 currently? Keep in mind that whatever the perfomance of the stock barrel, the short sight radius and caliber are working against you as well. What some of us are trying to tell you is that it is foolish to potentially compromise reliability in order to obtain unnecessary performance or "correct" a shooter-induced deficiency that is best addressed through practice. If you insist on installing a match-grade barrel in your sub-compact Glock, I wish you the best of luck.

September 13th, 2006, 03:56 PM	#11
RSSZ Distinguished Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,847	Let me just state "for the record" >>> I have lots of weapons that will simply outshoot me. I have several weapons that, as I get older,I find that I will never be trained well enough that I can bring out the full potential of these weapons. To the above weapons I say,"I'll surely come as close to you as my years will allow me to". This to me....... is reality. ---------

September 13th, 2006, 10:13 PM	#14
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Off Of The X Posts: 24,298	My Apologies To All Above. I totally missed that "For A G27" Whoops! I wrongly assumed Match Grade Barrel for a Colt pattern pistol. Disregard the above QKShooter post. The advantage of an aftermarket barrel for a Glock would be to be able to shoot Lead bullets. If you're not shooting Lead then I would stay with the factory barrel. __________________ Liberty/Tyranny ___________________________ Ain't That A Shame! Be Happy! *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OG3u...1&feature=fvwp*

September 13th, 2006, 10:31 PM	#15
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Off Of The X Posts: 24,298	Helpful Information: Shooting Low & Left Trigger Control. Work on that. Usually Low & to the Left is caused by poor trigger control due to the fact that you are anticipating recoil and your shots. Helpful Suggestions: > Invest in better hearing protection. > Get a Medium Strength GripMaster and use it daily. > Buy a Heavy Tungsten Guide Rod for your pistol. I'll sure bet you'll see improved shooting results.

September 14th, 2006, 09:04 AM	#16
hsuCowboy98 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,023	As my Grandfather always said, "If it aint broke, dont fix it". __________________ Fear No Evil.

September 14th, 2006, 11:31 AM	#17
rocky Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MI Posts: 13,241	I would be worried about reliability with a drop in /match part of any kind. Once you start changing parts, it seems the failure rate increases. __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson Nemo Me Impune Lacesset Link to my kydex builds:http://rocknloadkydex.blogspot.com/

September 14th, 2006, 05:35 PM	#18
KC135 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 742	If you cannot outshoot your gun, a new barrel is not needed. Example, if you can shoot a 3" group at fifty yards with a match handgun that will shoot a 1.5" group from a Ramson Rest, then if your carry gun shoots a 6" group at same range, a barrel may be in order. Otherwise, train and shoot a lot of ammo. __________________ Keep the shotgun handy!!

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