Celox? to add to my kit

packinnova · August 28th, 2007, 02:08 PM

I'm not sure if First aid items fit here or not, but here it goes...
What's everyones take on Celox or Quickclot. I've used QuickClot on myself before for deep cuts(while out on a trail), but it burns like he!!. I've read that Celox works (supposedly) like quickclot but doesn't burn. Any of you emt/fire/ems guys out there recommend it or have any input. I'm not talking about using it on arterial bleeders etc...(don't have the training - although I probably should - if my work schedule ever opens up I'm planning on signing up down at the volunteer fire station down the road, but right now I can't). At any rate, my planned usage would just be for bad/deep cuts etc... while I'm out on the trails this year(band-aids don't always cut it).

QKShooter · August 28th, 2007, 04:02 PM

Bleeding - Just an added FYI

Major bleeding may be a life-threatening condition requiring immediate attention. Bleeding may be external or internal. Bleeding may be from an ARTERY, a major blood vessel which carries oxygen-rich blood from the heart throughout the body. It may be from a VEIN, which carries blood back to the heart to be oxygenated or bleeding may be from a CAPILLARY, the smallest of our body's blood vessels.

ARTERIAL bleeding is characterized by spurts with each beat of the heart, is bright red in color (although blood darkens when it meets the air) and is usually severe and hard to control. ARTERIAL bleeding requires immediate attention!

VENUS bleeding is characterized by a steady flow and the blood is dark, almost maroon in shade. Venus bleeding is easier to control than Arterial bleeding.

CAPILLARY bleeding is usually slow, oozing in nature and this type of bleeding usually has a higher risk of infection than other types of bleeding.

FIRST AID FOR BLEEDING IS INTENDED TO:

STOP THE BLEEDING
PREVENT INFECTION
PREVENT SHOCK
How to control bleeding

Apply DIRECT PRESSURE on the wound. use a dressing, if available. if a dressing is not available, use a rag, towel, piece of clothing or your hand alone.

IMPORTANT:
ONCE PRESSURE IS APPLIED, KEEP IT IN PLACE. IF DRESSINGS BECOME SOAKED WITH BLOOD, APPLY NEW DRESSINGS OVER THE OLD DRESSINGS. THE LESS A BLEEDING WOUND IS DISTURBED, THE EASIER IT WILL BE TO STOP THE BLEEDING!

If bleeding continues, and you do not suspect a fracture, ELEVATE the wound above the level of the heart and continue to apply direct pressure.

If the bleeding still cannot be controlled, the next step is to apply PRESSURE AT A PRESSURE POINT. For wounds of the arms or hands, pressure points are located on the inside of the wrist ( radial artery-where a pulse is checked) or on the inside of the upper arm (brachial artery). For wounds of the legs, the pressure point is at the crease in the groin (femoral artery). Steps 1 and 2 should be continued with use of the pressure points.

The final step to control bleeding is to apply a PRESSURE BANDAGE over the wound. Note the distinction between a dressing and a bandage. A dressing may be a gauze square applied directly to a wound, while a bandage, such as roll gauze, is used to hold a dressing in place. Pressure should be used in applying the bandage. After the bandage is in place, it is important to check the pulse to make sure circulation is not interrupted. When faced with the need to control major bleeding, it is not important that the dressings you will use are sterile! use whatever you have at hand and work fast!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A SLOW PULSE RATE, OR BLUISH FINGERTIPS OR TOES,
SIGNAL A BANDAGE MAY BE IMPEDING CIRCULATION.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Signs and symptoms of INTERNAL BLEEDING are:

bruised,swollen, tender or rigid abdomen
bruises on chest or signs of fractured ribs
blood in vomit
wounds that have penetrated the chest or abdomen
bleeding from the rectum or vagina
abnormal pulse and difficulty breathing
cool, moist skin
First aid in the field for internal bleeding is limited. If the injury appears to be a simple bruise, apply cold packs to slow bleeding, relieve pain and reduce swelling. If you suspect more severe internal bleeding, carefully monitor the patient and be prepared to administer CPR if required (and you are trained to do so). You should also reassure the victim, control external bleeding, care for shock - loosen tight-fitting clothing and place victim on side so fluids can drain from the mouth.

packinnova · August 28th, 2007, 04:37 PM

Thanks QK. I always take more info.

QKShooter · August 28th, 2007, 05:07 PM

Good information from you on the Celox.
You need to be able to stop major bleeding especially if out in the middle of nowhere.

BTW a 50mW Green Laser Light pen will halt open wound bleeding but, I really don't know anything about the technique. I only just recently read about it.

packinnova · August 28th, 2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QKShooter

Good information from you on the Celox.
You need to be able to stop major bleeding especially if out in the middle of nowhere.

BTW a 50mW Green Laser Light pen will halt open wound bleeding but, I really don't know anything about the technique. I only just recently read about it.

Now that's cool. I'm going to have to read up on that too...not that I'm going to spend that kind of money but...who knows

Bark'n · August 28th, 2007, 10:24 PM

We used to carry "Trauma-Dex" on our ambulance and have used it many times with great success. Now it is unavailable as all supplies of it is for DoD use in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We now, as of 3 weeks ago are using QuickClot ACS which has the granules inside of a 4X4 type dressing so it is less messy than dealing with the loose granules. Also it is a newer formulation than the original which is reported to cause much less burning sensation.

By the way, the heat comes from the chemical reaction as the material absorbes the water out of the plasma component of the blood which is what facilitates the clotting action.

The burning can be reduced by taking an absorbant bulky dressing and wiping away as much excess blood from the wound as possible before immediately adding the QuickClot and applying the pressure dressing.

Unfortunately or fortunately I haven't had a major bleeding injury since getting the QuickClot ACS 4x4's to try them out yet.

We did have an arterial bleed last month on a guy who fell through his storm door window and I was kind of pissed because the QuickClot hadn't come in yet and we had to treat it the old fashioned way.

I have not had any experience with the Celox as of yet.

There are some other cool new "Hemostatic" dressings out on the market to stop uncontrolled bleeding such as "HemCon" and "ChitoFlex" dressings but they are much more pricey than QuickClot, Trauma-Dex and Celox.

If you are looking for cool "cutting-edge" new tactical medical equipment for your kits that is being used by DoD check out North American Rescue here: http://www.narescue.com/

They are DoD & GSA suppliers and have done a lot of the R&D to develop the new products being used today by DoD. I believe the President & CEO of the company is an ex-USAF Pararescueman.

They do handle private individual sales to the public I think. Not positive as I purchase my personal stuff through our Ambulance Service Accounts and then do payroll deduction. A nice perk of our job to spread out the cost over a couple months.

Echo_Four · August 29th, 2007, 02:00 AM

Quick Clot may burn, but when it is really time to use it, that is better than the other possibility.

downrange · August 30th, 2007, 12:05 AM

twice i cut myself pretty deep. antiseptics are a must even if it's hand sanitizer (i'm addicted to the stuff) and i have super glue. the original purpose to it's invention was for medical use and it works great. temporary, non toxic, and kept me from getting stitches both times. also left no scarring. they were deep cuts too... me, a knife, and a brain fart... don't ask.

packinnova · August 30th, 2007, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echo_Four

Quick Clot may burn, but when it is really time to use it, that is better than the other possibility.

Yeah...good point.

packinnova · August 30th, 2007, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downrange

twice i cut myself pretty deep. antiseptics are a must even if it's hand sanitizer (i'm addicted to the stuff) and i have super glue. the original purpose to it's invention was for medical use and it works great. temporary, non toxic, and kept me from getting stitches both times. also left no scarring. they were deep cuts too... me, a knife, and a brain fart... don't ask.

I cant believe I didnt think of that. Thats a good one. Thanks!

August 28th, 2007, 04:02 PM	#2
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Off Of The X Posts: 20,021	I have QuickClot...I'll need to check out Celox. Bleeding - Just an added FYI Major bleeding may be a life-threatening condition requiring immediate attention. Bleeding may be external or internal. Bleeding may be from an ARTERY, a major blood vessel which carries oxygen-rich blood from the heart throughout the body. It may be from a VEIN, which carries blood back to the heart to be oxygenated or bleeding may be from a CAPILLARY, the smallest of our body's blood vessels. ARTERIAL bleeding is characterized by spurts with each beat of the heart, is bright red in color (although blood darkens when it meets the air) and is usually severe and hard to control. ARTERIAL bleeding requires immediate attention! VENUS bleeding is characterized by a steady flow and the blood is dark, almost maroon in shade. Venus bleeding is easier to control than Arterial bleeding. CAPILLARY bleeding is usually slow, oozing in nature and this type of bleeding usually has a higher risk of infection than other types of bleeding. FIRST AID FOR BLEEDING IS INTENDED TO: STOP THE BLEEDING PREVENT INFECTION PREVENT SHOCK How to control bleeding Apply DIRECT PRESSURE on the wound. use a dressing, if available. if a dressing is not available, use a rag, towel, piece of clothing or your hand alone. IMPORTANT: ONCE PRESSURE IS APPLIED, KEEP IT IN PLACE. IF DRESSINGS BECOME SOAKED WITH BLOOD, APPLY NEW DRESSINGS OVER THE OLD DRESSINGS. THE LESS A BLEEDING WOUND IS DISTURBED, THE EASIER IT WILL BE TO STOP THE BLEEDING! If bleeding continues, and you do not suspect a fracture, ELEVATE the wound above the level of the heart and continue to apply direct pressure. If the bleeding still cannot be controlled, the next step is to apply PRESSURE AT A PRESSURE POINT. For wounds of the arms or hands, pressure points are located on the inside of the wrist ( radial artery-where a pulse is checked) or on the inside of the upper arm (brachial artery). For wounds of the legs, the pressure point is at the crease in the groin (femoral artery). Steps 1 and 2 should be continued with use of the pressure points. The final step to control bleeding is to apply a PRESSURE BANDAGE over the wound. Note the distinction between a dressing and a bandage. A dressing may be a gauze square applied directly to a wound, while a bandage, such as roll gauze, is used to hold a dressing in place. Pressure should be used in applying the bandage. After the bandage is in place, it is important to check the pulse to make sure circulation is not interrupted. When faced with the need to control major bleeding, it is not important that the dressings you will use are sterile! use whatever you have at hand and work fast! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A SLOW PULSE RATE, OR BLUISH FINGERTIPS OR TOES, SIGNAL A BANDAGE MAY BE IMPEDING CIRCULATION. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signs and symptoms of INTERNAL BLEEDING are: bruised,swollen, tender or rigid abdomen bruises on chest or signs of fractured ribs blood in vomit wounds that have penetrated the chest or abdomen bleeding from the rectum or vagina abnormal pulse and difficulty breathing cool, moist skin First aid in the field for internal bleeding is limited. If the injury appears to be a simple bruise, apply cold packs to slow bleeding, relieve pain and reduce swelling. If you suspect more severe internal bleeding, carefully monitor the patient and be prepared to administer CPR if required (and you are trained to do so). You should also reassure the victim, control external bleeding, care for shock - loosen tight-fitting clothing and place victim on side so fluids can drain from the mouth.

August 28th, 2007, 05:07 PM	#4
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Off Of The X Posts: 20,021	Good information from you on the Celox. You need to be able to stop major bleeding especially if out in the middle of nowhere. BTW a 50mW Green Laser Light pen will halt open wound bleeding but, I really don't know anything about the technique. I only just recently read about it. __________________

August 28th, 2007, 10:24 PM	#6
Bark'n VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,627	We used to carry "Trauma-Dex" on our ambulance and have used it many times with great success. Now it is unavailable as all supplies of it is for DoD use in Iraq and Afghanistan. We now, as of 3 weeks ago are using QuickClot ACS which has the granules inside of a 4X4 type dressing so it is less messy than dealing with the loose granules. Also it is a newer formulation than the original which is reported to cause much less burning sensation. By the way, the heat comes from the chemical reaction as the material absorbes the water out of the plasma component of the blood which is what facilitates the clotting action. The burning can be reduced by taking an absorbant bulky dressing and wiping away as much excess blood from the wound as possible before immediately adding the QuickClot and applying the pressure dressing. Unfortunately or fortunately I haven't had a major bleeding injury since getting the QuickClot ACS 4x4's to try them out yet. We did have an arterial bleed last month on a guy who fell through his storm door window and I was kind of pissed because the QuickClot hadn't come in yet and we had to treat it the old fashioned way. I have not had any experience with the Celox as of yet. There are some other cool new "Hemostatic" dressings out on the market to stop uncontrolled bleeding such as "HemCon" and "ChitoFlex" dressings but they are much more pricey than QuickClot, Trauma-Dex and Celox. If you are looking for cool "cutting-edge" new tactical medical equipment for your kits that is being used by DoD check out North American Rescue here: http://www.narescue.com/ They are DoD & GSA suppliers and have done a lot of the R&D to develop the new products being used today by DoD. I believe the President & CEO of the company is an ex-USAF Pararescueman. They do handle private individual sales to the public I think. Not positive as I purchase my personal stuff through our Ambulance Service Accounts and then do payroll deduction. A nice perk of our job to spread out the cost over a couple months. __________________ -Bark'n Semper Fi "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, will prey on those of us who without one, would surely perish."

August 29th, 2007, 02:00 AM	#7
Echo_Four Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,029	Quick Clot may burn, but when it is really time to use it, that is better than the other possibility. __________________ "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines." - Lt. Col. Oliver North Firearm Facts Christian Warrior Ministries

August 30th, 2007, 12:05 AM	#8
downrange Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: levittown PA Posts: 568	twice i cut myself pretty deep. antiseptics are a must even if it's hand sanitizer (i'm addicted to the stuff) and i have super glue. the original purpose to it's invention was for medical use and it works great. temporary, non toxic, and kept me from getting stitches both times. also left no scarring. they were deep cuts too... me, a knife, and a brain fart... don't ask. __________________ What's this button do?

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