Buz

You're only going to use your weapon in self-defense if the perpetrator is imminantly threatening your life. This is not done at 7 yards. It's done at point blank range. Laser sights are useless in this situation. I think it's dillusional to think that laser sights are going to help you in a self-defense situation. The only situation I can think of would be in your home at night, and even then you'd be better off with a halogen light vs. a red dot. Save your money. Laser sights are gimmicky for the self-defense crowd. They are for offensive shooters.

Danger Mouse

Buz I was going by the FBI's statistics that say attacks happen within 7 yards, and closer, but not normally further than that. If it is further then you may have to explain to a judge and jury why you were so far away and still reacted with deadly force. here in VA we have to use all options available before resorting to deadly force. depending on the distance a jury may decide you could had escaped without gunfire. depends on the police who respond too. But I do agree that at that close a range one does not have time to aim.

__________________
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QKShooter

It's very limiting to believe that there is any LIKELY scenario.
SHTF scenarios are like fingerprints. No two are exactly the same.
And be certain that yours or mine will never "go down" the way it is "most likely" to happen.

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Buz

A defense attorney would have a field day explaining to a jury that you went out of your way to install 'laser sights' on your self-defense pistol.
You don't need them for self-defense. Save your money.

Blackhawk6

I used to be skeptical of lasers. Having had the opprtunity to use them a bit, I was forced to change my opinion.

From a tactical stndpoint, when properly zeroed, they allow you to engage targets more effectively under low-light conditions, especially while moving or from unconventional shooting positions. They are certainly not required, but they do offer an advantage.

Obviously, if none of these conditions exist in your preconceived notion of what your life-threatening situation will look like, laser sights no benefit.

As P95Carry has already pointed out, they supplement your iron sights, they do not replace them. There are effective techniques that allow you to shoot under the previously discussed conditions and those techniques still need to be practised.

I am not sure why anyone would have to justify their laser sights to a defense attorney. I would think the prosecutor/plaintiff's attorney would be a bigger concern.

Regardless, given the fact that at least three respected, nationally-known firearms trainers acknowledge they offer a benefit and Crimson-Trace is reporting that law enforcement officers with laser-equipped weapons are connecting with 90% of their rounds vs. a national average of ~20% for non-laser-equipped LEO's, I do not think it would be much of an obstacle to overcome.

Buz

My bad. Yes, a prosecutor would have a field day. They would sway the jury to believe you actually anticipated or expected or hoped to shoot someone.
Why would you need to have lasersights on a defensive weapon? Laser sights are meant to be used at distance. They are used when you have distance and time to shoot something, NOT when you have to react at the spur of the moment.
You can argue all you want, but laser sights are not going to benefit you in a SELF-DEFENSE situation. Some of you guys watch too much TV. Get a grip.
If you want to be a member of swat or a sniper or a opportunistic shooter, then get a laser sight.
If you want to carry a gun in case someone challenges your personal rights, get good at drawing and shooting instinctively. Don't rely on a stupid red dot when your life is in imminant danger. Pull your gun and shoot for COM.

P95Carry

Prosecutor problem - what about ''I have laser lights for best accuracy under lower light conditions - the better able to only hit my intended target - and not innocent bystanders!". I'll worry about a prosecutor when, still being alive, I am justifying why I took out the slime who was trying to kill me!

There are several ways of looking at it all ... and anyways - ''normal'' shooting takes priority - the laser is simply a bonus under certain possible situations. It need not in any way prejucdice ''normal'' shooting.

I'll dip out now It is as ever a two sided deal - folks do what the heck they feel comfortable with - and at the end of the day if you have to defend yourself - do it best you can, by any means.

__________________
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."

If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

Blackhawk6

The same arguement could be made about the fact you were carrying a gun, attended training or used hollow-point ammunition. Fortunately our legal system affords your lawyer the opportunity to explain why your conduct was not as radical as the prosecution claims.

Need...no. Offer an advantage...yes. I believe I already outlined those conditions where I feel lasers provide an advantage.

Says who? Why can't I use my laser up close? You do realize that a lot of people miss at very close range. I think NYPD reported its hit percentage at distances of 0-2 yards for 2006 at around 50%. That would seem to indicate that its not a simple as "drawing and shooting instinctively."

Since you were concerned about potential litigation, you may want to give some thought to where the other ~50% of the rounds went and the potential for litigation if they end up hitting someone they should not.

I am not certain if you meant to be insulting or if you just came across that way. Regardless, I am certain I have a much better understanding of the variety of circumstances underwhich gunfights occur.

Will a laser provide an advantage in every situation? No. Will a laser provide an advantage in some situations? Yes. Are they a requirement? No.

Ahhh! Something we agree on!

Buz

Agreed. Use them if you perfer. But remember, I probably won't be on the jury in one of these cases(if I was, I'd probably be behind you 100% even with the Crimson Trace grips). No, most likely you will have 12 'sheeple' on your jury. Soccer mom's, welfare recipients, hair dressers, etc. When it gets explained to them that you went out of your way and spent $100+ dollars to install a laser system designed for tactical, offensive shooting that a law enforcement officer or swat team member uses, they will begin to think you are either a person eager to shoot someone or a wannabe police officer or an overly paranoid individual. THEY WON'T SEE IT THE WAY YOU DO. They already have to try to accept the fact that you had a gun on you in the first place. Add laser sights and now you're suspect.
You don't need them for self-defense. Overkill.

retsupt99

None of the choices really cover my feelings...so I didn't vote.
I think lasers have their place...could be a help, but not something to depend upon...

As far as in court...be sure of your choice to use deadly force...

Stay armed...stay safe!

__________________
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