I carry a light, but I don't want one on my gun. - Page 2

jdsumner · September 29th, 2005, 10:12 PM

One point I might make from observing deps at the range with lights on subcompact and compact guns. The addition of the light changes the physics of the pistol in recoil and can/does effect its reliability. Doesnt seem to be a huge deal on the full size guns, but the smaller versions do seem to be effected.
As to a light mounted on a ccw handgun. The point was made that you will point a light at a hell of a lot more things than you will need to point your muzzle at. This makes the case for a weapon mounted light carried off-gun till needed (but, if you knew you needed it, you' d just not be at the fight). And, a second light, such as a Surefire 6 or 9p, to be used primarily as a 'looky' light, but can be used in conjuction with the handgun as a system. Whatever you decide, just apply 2 rules: 1) always have a light, period.
2) practice.

Dan

P95Carry · September 29th, 2005, 10:41 PM

I have always been tempted to add a light - the 226 has a rail already. Biggest downside is the holster issue, plus indeed, even that small added mass will change POI enough to perhaps matter. If I chose to have a separate house gun I would certainly fit one but everyday carry - nah - not very likely.

I have become fairly adept at left hand use of E1e while still taking a two hand gun hold. If no time to get light in hand tho then with night sights, CT's and basic instinct I think I'll still stand a chance.

DirksterG30 · September 29th, 2005, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdsumner

One point I might make from observing deps at the range with lights on subcompact and compact guns. The addition of the light changes the physics of the pistol in recoil and can/does effect its reliability. Doesnt seem to be a huge deal on the full size guns, but the smaller versions do seem to be effected.
Dan

I've never had reliability problems with my aluminum-framed P-01 or 40-P (which are considered compacts) when the M-3 is mounted on it, and I've shot more than a few rounds out of them with a light attached.

For me, I don't worry about having the light on the gun, because the only other person in my house is my wife. If there's a in the house, and she's beside me in bed, I know it's someone who shouldn't be there. I'm not gonna worry about pointing a weapon light at him. When we have children, Lord willing, then I'll probably go with an off-weapon light.

srfl · September 30th, 2005, 02:06 AM

I have a Surefire X200 on my dedicated home defense handgun, a Beretta 92G Vertec 9mm which came equipped with night sights. When I come home from work, I take it out of the safe (every day) and load it with a 20 round Mec Gar magazine which is fitted with a Pearce +2 floorplate. A spare 20 round Mec Gar magazine, similarly equipped, stands vigil next to the Vertec....both magazines are filled with Speer 124 grain standard pressure Gold Dot JHPs.

By the way, when I'm off to work, the gun and mags get secured in my safe and my Sig P229 comes out of hiding.

The X200 is perfect in the target ID role, but as others have said, it fits that specific role and is not meant to serve as the sole (or primary) means of illumination if things "go bump in the night." ......for that, my Surefire 6P sits on my night stand well within reach.....

I'll take a photo of my set up later and post it for all to see.

Tangle · September 30th, 2005, 09:40 AM

srfl,
I have the same 92G Vertec, X200, Mecgar 20 round mag setup you do. It is a good set up. The same mags also fit my Beretta Storm. If it weren't for that slide mounted decocker. I've broken the skin more than once on that thing racking the slide in a hurry.

Right now, I'm carrying a USPf 9mm, so unless I buy an adapter, I can't use my X200 with the USP. I may have to start doing what you do - 92G Vertec with 20 rounds as an over night weapon and the USP by day.

Greymoor · September 30th, 2005, 10:40 AM

Tangle - I have never run my Aviator that long. However I can believe that the xenon bulb would get very hot. I will have to do an experiment on heat as it would take me about 10-15 min to clear my house carefully.

ExSoldier762 - I have seen and used friend’s lasers. Usually I can only see the beam in dusty or foggy situations. However if the perp were aware that you are awake he would see what looks like someone with a red LED waving it around if it is pointed in the general direction of the BG. If you hold off lighting the laser until you have a clear target then most likely you will have illuminated them with a flashlight or there is enough residual light that the BG already knows where you are.

Lasers are more of an intimidation factor in events that have a delayed flashpoint. If the BG is ready to shoot on sight it will not really matter. He who sees the other first gets first shot and if you are shot at you may be hit, if hit you may be killed. I know my house, and in my house darkness is my friend. The only time I want a BG to know where I am located is when he is staring down the barrel of fate . . . :D

In all fairness I should pick up a WML for my XD tactical to see how it would affect my usage of the weapon. Small buttons are something to be avoided in adrenalin situations. Can anyone comment on the operations of these lights?

Tangle · September 30th, 2005, 10:47 AM

Greymoor,
Unfortunately, or should that be fortunately, no other Xenon lamp based flashlight shut down or even got more than slightly warm.

What this leads me to believe, since the Aviator must use some electronics to drive the LEDs, that somehow it's the electronics that's causing the heat problem rather than the Xenon bulb.

P95Carry · September 30th, 2005, 12:23 PM

Quote:

somehow it's the electronics that's causing the heat problem rather than the Xenon bulb.

That crossed my mind Ron - not just hot bulb but maybe too a poorly heat-sinked SCR or power tran'.

Greymoor · September 30th, 2005, 12:28 PM

Hmmm, I wonder if Surefire have a fix for this. I would have to run my light to see if it overheats.

Tangle · September 30th, 2005, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greymoor

Hmmm, I wonder if Surefire have a fix for this. I would have to run my light to see if it overheats.

I'd sure like to know what it does. If it helps, you can buy Sanyo batteries from Botach for $1.00 apiece. So it would only cost about two bucks to find out.

You probably want to know before you really depend on it. If yours doesn't overheat then it's not a factor anymore. If it does...

I wonder if Surefire has a fix for it too. It could be a design problem that is not easily fixed, but if they can't fix it, I bet they would offer you a different light that's comparable or better.

If you don't mind running down two batteries, I'd really like to know if it overheats.

September 29th, 2005, 10:41 PM	#12
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,366	I have always been tempted to add a light - the 226 has a rail already. Biggest downside is the holster issue, plus indeed, even that small added mass will change POI enough to perhaps matter. If I chose to have a separate house gun I would certainly fit one but everyday carry - nah - not very likely. I have become fairly adept at left hand use of E1e while still taking a two hand gun hold. If no time to get light in hand tho then with night sights, CT's and basic instinct I think I'll still stand a chance. __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

September 30th, 2005, 02:06 AM	#14
srfl Senior Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FL Posts: 6,422	I have a Surefire X200 on my dedicated home defense handgun, a Beretta 92G Vertec 9mm which came equipped with night sights. When I come home from work, I take it out of the safe (every day) and load it with a 20 round Mec Gar magazine which is fitted with a Pearce +2 floorplate. A spare 20 round Mec Gar magazine, similarly equipped, stands vigil next to the Vertec....both magazines are filled with Speer 124 grain standard pressure Gold Dot JHPs. By the way, when I'm off to work, the gun and mags get secured in my safe and my Sig P229 comes out of hiding. The X200 is perfect in the target ID role, but as others have said, it fits that specific role and is not meant to serve as the sole (or primary) means of illumination if things "go bump in the night." ......for that, my Surefire 6P sits on my night stand well within reach..... I'll take a photo of my set up later and post it for all to see. __________________ USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

September 30th, 2005, 10:40 AM	#16
Greymoor Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 75	Tangle - I have never run my Aviator that long. However I can believe that the xenon bulb would get very hot. I will have to do an experiment on heat as it would take me about 10-15 min to clear my house carefully. ExSoldier762 - I have seen and used friend’s lasers. Usually I can only see the beam in dusty or foggy situations. However if the perp were aware that you are awake he would see what looks like someone with a red LED waving it around if it is pointed in the general direction of the BG. If you hold off lighting the laser until you have a clear target then most likely you will have illuminated them with a flashlight or there is enough residual light that the BG already knows where you are. Lasers are more of an intimidation factor in events that have a delayed flashpoint. If the BG is ready to shoot on sight it will not really matter. He who sees the other first gets first shot and if you are shot at you may be hit, if hit you may be killed. I know my house, and in my house darkness is my friend. The only time I want a BG to know where I am located is when he is staring down the barrel of fate . . . :D In all fairness I should pick up a WML for my XD tactical to see how it would affect my usage of the weapon. Small buttons are something to be avoided in adrenalin situations. Can anyone comment on the operations of these lights? __________________ Shoot well and be safe -Don "The trouble with our liberal friends are not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan

September 30th, 2005, 12:28 PM	#19
Greymoor Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 75	Hmmm, I wonder if Surefire have a fix for this. I would have to run my light to see if it overheats. __________________ Shoot well and be safe -Don "The trouble with our liberal friends are not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan

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September 29th, 2005, 10:12 PM	#11
jdsumner Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: riverview, fl Posts: 434	One point I might make from observing deps at the range with lights on subcompact and compact guns. The addition of the light changes the physics of the pistol in recoil and can/does effect its reliability. Doesnt seem to be a huge deal on the full size guns, but the smaller versions do seem to be effected. As to a light mounted on a ccw handgun. The point was made that you will point a light at a hell of a lot more things than you will need to point your muzzle at. This makes the case for a weapon mounted light carried off-gun till needed (but, if you knew you needed it, you' d just not be at the fight). And, a second light, such as a Surefire 6 or 9p, to be used primarily as a 'looky' light, but can be used in conjuction with the handgun as a system. Whatever you decide, just apply 2 rules: 1) always have a light, period. 2) practice. Dan

September 30th, 2005, 09:40 AM	#15
Tangle Senior Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chattanooga Posts: 5,783	srfl, I have the same 92G Vertec, X200, Mecgar 20 round mag setup you do. It is a good set up. The same mags also fit my Beretta Storm. If it weren't for that slide mounted decocker. I've broken the skin more than once on that thing racking the slide in a hurry. Right now, I'm carrying a USPf 9mm, so unless I buy an adapter, I can't use my X200 with the USP. I may have to start doing what you do - 92G Vertec with 20 rounds as an over night weapon and the USP by day.

September 30th, 2005, 10:47 AM	#17
Tangle Senior Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chattanooga Posts: 5,783	Greymoor, Unfortunately, or should that be fortunately, no other Xenon lamp based flashlight shut down or even got more than slightly warm. What this leads me to believe, since the Aviator must use some electronics to drive the LEDs, that somehow it's the electronics that's causing the heat problem rather than the Xenon bulb.