Do you have lasers and lights... - Page 5

ToddG · May 5th, 2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfcmb

o See if you can help her realize (perhaps through some role-playing / experimentation / practice, maybe with a cheap laser pointer as a prop) that the BG is not going to notice a red dot on his body, so the laser is highly unlikely to be an effective deterrent.

What do you base that on? I've spoken to many officers who've had the exact opposite experience, and I've certainly seen the effect it has in FOF as both a student and a role-player.

I agree with the majority of what you posted, but the above is just contrary to everything I've seen first hand or heard from others who've used a laser in an actual shooting or near-shooting incident.

SIGP250 · May 6th, 2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfcmb

Some thoughts:

o Be a supportive husband and get her what she wants. Your relationship will benefit.

o See if you can help her realize (perhaps through some role-playing / experimentation / practice, maybe with a cheap laser pointer as a prop) that the BG is not going to notice a red dot on his body, so the laser is highly unlikely to be an effective deterrent.

o Consider that if she's counting on the laser to scare a BG away, this might be a variation on the "I carry a gun for self defense but I'd never actually shoot anyone" mindset, which as I'm sure you know is a dangerous mindset. If this appears to be the case then you've got a more fundamental problem than whether it's meaningful to have a laser on your EDC.

o It appears that when the SHTF most people end up point shooting in the heat of the moment. For the first shot or two most people won't have the time or presence of mind either to do sighted shooting OR to follow-the-dot with laser-aimed fire. But for successive shots I think that laser-aimed fire can be very helpful to get the shots on target; particularly if you're moving, or end up at odd angles.

1. My wife and I shoot regularly. Some men golf with their wife most I think do not, selfish, cheap, or for other reasons maybe.

2. I have insisted that my wife go through extensive training the same as I have. We are both fully licensed to carry concealed in 37 states.

3. I have much more tactical training than my wife but she knows that I always carry fully loaded and chambered. She is also more comfortable with this concept the more she learns.

4. We practice. At least twice a week for an hour or more. About 150 rounds each. We are members so we don't pay the $15-18 by the hour for lane fees at indoor range.

5. If you can't shoot, a laser will not help you. Point shooting is not the right answer in my humble opinion.

In short, I just don't shoot from the hip. That is what I consider point shooting to be.

Please contact me for more on this should you have additional concerns or questions.

CRags99 · May 6th, 2009, 12:30 AM

I have a Crimson Trace laser grip on my Glock 27, but it's been there since I traded for it so it feels natural.

Redflight09 · May 8th, 2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Laser: I have a set of Lasergrips on every pistol I carry if Lasergrips are available. Simply put, there are things you can accomplish with a laser that you cannot accomplish without a laser. Those things may not be important to -- or understood by -- some folks, but once you've had some training and experience it's very hard to give up those advantages.

I think ToddG nailed it here. I do not have laser grips on my handguns however I think I will start setting up some firearms with laser. I like the pin/rod type lasers, they are adjustable although I would think that you would have to take the gun apart for adjustment.

I do think a small flashlight or 2 is an absolute necessity for concealed carry situations. You must know and identify your target in all situations.

I am currently working on all fronts Guns/holsters/lights/lasers. I do have some nice setups but I'm still adjusting here and there.

My 2 cents

SIGP250 · May 8th, 2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRags99

I have a Crimson Trace laser grip on my Glock 27, but it's been there since I traded for it so it feels natural.

It is all what you are comfortable with. Lasers are fun sometimes. I have some with and some without. When I added Crimson grips to my DX, it changed the characteristics of the pistol and how I grip it. Not that you can't re-learn, it just takes time.

I sell all of this so please do not think I am against lasers or lights.

I would rather sell you a better gun than to see you add $3-400.00 for a laser grip on a pistol that is not perfect to begin with or what you might not really need.

I carry a Walther PPS sub compact most of the time. It is very compact. I don't want to add any bulk to it with any type of grip that adds width to it.

In the car. I normally carry A Sig P250 or P220. Both have night sights so I don't feel a need for a laser. I shoot often and have confidence in what and where I shoot.
As mentioned, I am not a point shooter.

The Springfield DX Sub had a crimson grip. It was just not right for me.

It might be perfect for you. If so. get the DXm.

bmcgilvray · May 8th, 2009, 11:14 PM

Nope. I don't want any extra baggage on my firearms.

ExSoldier · May 8th, 2009, 11:34 PM

Well, I used to have a neat little Glock M27 with the Crimson Trace module attached and once I got it "tuned" so that the dot rested right on top of the front sight and I knew it was zeroed for about 50 feet, I was very confident that anywhere in between zero and 50' that dot was where my round would go.

There are two problems:

#1 If there is any particulate matter in the air, even gun smoke or fog, the beam becomes visible and it draws a neat line straight back to you.

#2 The beam shakes in your hand and even little twitches that would never throw off your iron sights are wildly accentuated by that dot. If you've got a perp at gun point and he sees that dot vibrating like mad he might think you're a lot more frightened then you really are and that might make him a little bolder than he might have been otherwise and lead him to try something funny thinking you might hesitate to shoot. You won't but it's a bad idea for a sheepdog to communicate any fear to any wolf. The shaking also looks funny at the range.

ExSoldier · May 8th, 2009, 11:47 PM

My EDC is also my bedside gun. Every night I attach a Streamlight TLR-2 to the rail and slip it under my pillow. When I wake up I use a coin to loosen the light and it goes into the safe while the gun gets ready to ride in my Crossbreed super tuck deluxe. That is assuming I'm on summer vacation and not going off to work at my inner city high school. A month from today that summer vacation begins!

SIGP250 · May 9th, 2009, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExSoldier

Well, I used to have a neat little Glock M27 with the Crimson Trace module attached and once I got it "tuned" so that the dot rested right on top of the front sight and I knew it was zeroed for about 50 feet, I was very confident that anywhere in between zero and 50' that dot was where my round would go.

There are two problems:

#1 If there is any particulate matter in the air, even gun smoke or fog, the beam becomes visible and it draws a neat line straight back to you.

#2 The beam shakes in your hand and even little twitches that would never throw off your iron sights are wildly accentuated by that dot. If you've got a perp at gun point and he sees that dot vibrating like mad he might think you're a lot more frightened then you really are and that might make him a little bolder than he might have been otherwise and lead him to try something funny thinking you might hesitate to shoot. You won't but it's a bad idea for a sheepdog to communicate any fear to any wolf. The shaking also looks funny at the range.

One of the things about sighting as you mention.
If you are sighted correctly in the first place you should not see the laser beam at all.

Unless of course you are shooting from the hip.

Nothing wrong with that really but not so easy and and not what I train for.

QKShooter · May 9th, 2009, 02:06 PM

Slightly Off Topic but, related.
I recently saw a full page vintage magazine ad for one of the first rifle mount Laser systems.

It was a big, square box that sat on top of the rifle and had a key lock on it and it actually looked like it was fully half the size of a Cinder Block. It was huge!

I wonder how much it weighed?

It was selling for $2,000 - Now-a-days you can buy a Laser Pointer for a dollar.

Technology Marches On!

May 8th, 2009, 11:34 PM	#47
ExSoldier VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Coral Gables, FL Posts: 4,856	Well, I used to have a neat little Glock M27 with the Crimson Trace module attached and once I got it "tuned" so that the dot rested right on top of the front sight and I knew it was zeroed for about 50 feet, I was very confident that anywhere in between zero and 50' that dot was where my round would go. There are two problems: #1 If there is any particulate matter in the air, even gun smoke or fog, the beam becomes visible and it draws a neat line straight back to you. #2 The beam shakes in your hand and even little twitches that would never throw off your iron sights are wildly accentuated by that dot. If you've got a perp at gun point and he sees that dot vibrating like mad he might think you're a lot more frightened then you really are and that might make him a little bolder than he might have been otherwise and lead him to try something funny thinking you might hesitate to shoot. You won't but it's a bad idea for a sheepdog to communicate any fear to any wolf. The shaking also looks funny at the range. __________________ Former Infantry Captain; 20 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

May 8th, 2009, 11:47 PM	#48
ExSoldier VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Coral Gables, FL Posts: 4,856	My EDC is also my bedside gun. Every night I attach a Streamlight TLR-2 to the rail and slip it under my pillow. When I wake up I use a coin to loosen the light and it goes into the safe while the gun gets ready to ride in my Crossbreed super tuck deluxe. That is assuming I'm on summer vacation and not going off to work at my inner city high school. A month from today that summer vacation begins! __________________ Former Infantry Captain; 20 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

May 6th, 2009, 12:30 AM	#43
CRags99 Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Benton, KY Posts: 479	I have a Crimson Trace laser grip on my Glock 27, but it's been there since I traded for it so it feels natural.

May 8th, 2009, 11:14 PM	#46
bmcgilvray Distinguished Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,737	Nope. I don't want any extra baggage on my firearms.

May 9th, 2009, 02:06 PM	#50
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Off Of The X Posts: 23,502	Slightly Off Topic but, related. I recently saw a full page vintage magazine ad for one of the first rifle mount Laser systems. It was a big, square box that sat on top of the rifle and had a key lock on it and it actually looked like it was fully half the size of a Cinder Block. It was huge! I wonder how much it weighed? It was selling for $2,000 - Now-a-days you can buy a Laser Pointer for a dollar. Technology Marches On!