Armor? - Page 2

packinnova · August 4th, 2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superhouse 15

When my agency looked at this subject a few years ago, they asked me (the "gun guy") for some research. The IIa will stop most threats commonly found on the street and is available in a slightly more comfortable and lighter vest than the II. Keep in mind that the vest may well stop rounds over what it is rated for, but will deform more on the back face (that's the part against you). There was some disagreement among those who study such things that the amount of back face damage required by the NIJ may not really coorespond to injury to the wearer. Some folks think the standard is too strict, thus requiring vests to be excessively heavy, thus less likely to be worn. A burn or a bruise is better than a hole through your guts in my opinion. If I had to buy a vest to wear on duty at my cost, I would buy the lightest IIa I could find and add a good trauma plate to it. Looking at the pic from QKshooter, I am not too likely to face .357 and 9mm from carbines in my area and IIa will stop most of what I see. I have no idea how the new fabrics/composites are against knives, but I can only assume they are better than Kevlar. I wonder if anyone even uses Kevlar anymore?

By the way, my agancy dropped the idea..... Too expensive.

It's not just the penetration that's the issue. I'm no expert and will point it out readily, nor did I stay in a holiday inn express.

I do however remember quite clearly seeing test firings at different level vests at some point, and the real damage came from the trauma to the internal organs even when the vest wasn't actually penetrated. The force exterted on both the pigs and the clay molds was devestating with the lower level vest when hit by higher order rounds even though they didn't penetrate. We're talking large watermellon size shock cavities with severe internal organ trauma. The vest that was placed around a large clay block was NOT penetrated by a 357 I believe is what it was, but when the vest was removed there was a mellon sized empty cavity behind where the vest took the impact. This was a solid clay block about human thickness.

LRFireEMS · August 5th, 2009, 01:38 AM

Good info, thanks guys I'd love to get more opinions about what you wear/would wear

Agave · August 5th, 2009, 02:26 AM

We wear US Armor's IIIA vest. When I get allowance money, I'm going to get an over the uniform carrier. I know it's there but, I don't let it worry me; I kind of feel funny without it. Some days on hikes when it's hot, I get encouraged to take it off though.

hbabler · August 5th, 2009, 03:02 AM

I wear a gatorhawk IIIA and a 2nd Chance IIA, I am in North Texas and it is hot, the IIA is much more comfortable to wear. Go to the bullet proof me website and look at the used and contract overrun vests that they have they have a measurement guide on their site, and if you give them your measurements they will let you know what they have that will fit you and that is about the cheapest that you will get a well fitted vest for. Make sure that you get one that fits right, my IIIA does not fit quite right so it does not get worn as much as the IIA, vests are uncomfortable and hot, I do not think that you can ever find one that is going to feel good all the time but you get used to the feeling the more that you wear it.

alexcantslee · August 5th, 2009, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10thmtn

Go to www.bulletproofme.com

I bought a Level III ballistic insert from them, which I keep in my briefcase. Makes a good shield, and will stop subgun rounds.

Good luck!

Sigh....everytime I log into these forums I find something else I wanna get!

Question, and forgive me if this has been asked before. That ballistic insert....does it set off metal detectors? Like if you flew with a laptop would it be able to go through security?

Thanis · August 5th, 2009, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10thmtn

...I bought a Level III ballistic insert from them, which I keep in my briefcase. Makes a good shield, and will stop subgun rounds....I tried a vest, but was just too hot and uncomfortable...

I'm no expert, but just makes sense the more logical option would be to make your pack, bag, or briefcase bulletproof.

Of course, depends on your occupation.

10thmtn · August 5th, 2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexcantslee

Sigh....everytime I log into these forums I find something else I wanna get!

Question, and forgive me if this has been asked before. That ballistic insert....does it set off metal detectors? Like if you flew with a laptop would it be able to go through security?

The material the insert is made of is the same fabric that the vests are made of. As far as I know, there is no metal. I've sent my briefcase through the x-ray machine at airports, and security never questioned the insert. Don't think there is any Federal law against having one, or flying with one, but I'm not a lawyer.

You may want to check the bulletproofme website, or give them a call.

Cheers!

Knuckledrager · August 5th, 2009, 10:51 AM

With armor, you get what you pay for. The newer hybrid vests with laminate materials are thinner and lighter but generally speaking, less flexible. All aramid construction like kevlar twaron is thicker but is still the gold standard for reliability particularly against the contact shot. Some of these are also available with edged weapon protection.

Avoid the cut rate e-tailers and go with a reputable company. Diamondback Tactical, Safariland-American Body Armor-Protec, RBR etc. IMHO, First Choice and Second Chance are solid "No Gos"! Be certain to buy a vest that passes the new 06 testing standards.

FWIW we wear the America Body Armor extreme HP in IIIa.

old grunt · August 5th, 2009, 02:32 PM

Tac Vest configured with pockets and pouches for your medical equipment. Best of both worlds...body armor and accessible carry for your "tools". Good Luck!

Knuckledrager · August 6th, 2009, 11:15 AM

Additional information on the bad juju that is First Choice.

#09-763: U.S. Sues First Choice Armor & Equipment for Providing Defective Bullet-Proof Vests to Law Enforcement Agencies (2009-08-03)

August 5th, 2009, 02:26 AM	#13
Agave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 929	We wear US Armor's IIIA vest. When I get allowance money, I'm going to get an over the uniform carrier. I know it's there but, I don't let it worry me; I kind of feel funny without it. Some days on hikes when it's hot, I get encouraged to take it off though. __________________ The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua. What He is doing with me KEEP YOUR LAWS OFF MY GUNS Facebook Group

August 5th, 2009, 10:51 AM	#18
Knuckledrager Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: PA Posts: 692	With armor, you get what you pay for. The newer hybrid vests with laminate materials are thinner and lighter but generally speaking, less flexible. All aramid construction like kevlar twaron is thicker but is still the gold standard for reliability particularly against the contact shot. Some of these are also available with edged weapon protection. Avoid the cut rate e-tailers and go with a reputable company. Diamondback Tactical, Safariland-American Body Armor-Protec, RBR etc. IMHO, First Choice and Second Chance are solid "No Gos"! Be certain to buy a vest that passes the new 06 testing standards. FWIW we wear the America Body Armor extreme HP in IIIa. __________________ "The liberty of the individual is no gift of civilization. It was greatest before there was any civilization." Sigmund Freud

August 5th, 2009, 02:32 PM	#19
old grunt Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 607	Tac Vest configured with pockets and pouches for your medical equipment. Best of both worlds...body armor and accessible carry for your "tools". Good Luck! __________________ "We deal in lead friend">Steve McQueen The Magnificent Seven 82d Abn(1983-86)OIF 2007-08 Glock 19&26/ Colt Gov't & OM Retired NYS LEO / NRA Life Member Palin 2012......GO SARAH !! "no kidding,gun slinging,spurs hitting the floor"

August 6th, 2009, 11:15 AM	#20
Knuckledrager Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: PA Posts: 692	Additional information on the bad juju that is First Choice. #09-763: U.S. Sues First Choice Armor & Equipment for Providing Defective Bullet-Proof Vests to Law Enforcement Agencies (2009-08-03) __________________ "The liberty of the individual is no gift of civilization. It was greatest before there was any civilization." Sigmund Freud

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August 5th, 2009, 01:38 AM	#12
LRFireEMS Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: LR Posts: 31	Good info, thanks guys I'd love to get more opinions about what you wear/would wear

August 5th, 2009, 03:02 AM	#14
hbabler New Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 11	I wear a gatorhawk IIIA and a 2nd Chance IIA, I am in North Texas and it is hot, the IIA is much more comfortable to wear. Go to the bullet proof me website and look at the used and contract overrun vests that they have they have a measurement guide on their site, and if you give them your measurements they will let you know what they have that will fit you and that is about the cheapest that you will get a well fitted vest for. Make sure that you get one that fits right, my IIIA does not fit quite right so it does not get worn as much as the IIA, vests are uncomfortable and hot, I do not think that you can ever find one that is going to feel good all the time but you get used to the feeling the more that you wear it.