Need Help Guys,45 Acp - Page 3

Tubby45 · January 12th, 2008, 01:49 AM

Back off .5gr and keep it there. Honest truth about flattened primers is once you see them you are usually 20% over pressure.

I'll check on some other forums and see if they can help us figure this out.

JEFFBUZZZ · January 12th, 2008, 01:52 AM

ok thanks

Miggy · January 12th, 2008, 02:17 AM

Sound to me (and I am not even remotely as good as Tubby in a bad day before he started reloading) like the case is getting deformed (bulging) by too much pressure. From what others have posted, you are loading powder to the limit and it is not necessary for a 5 inch barrel.
What I would do is load 5 rounds with 7.2 grains, then 5 rounds at 7.4, etc and stop whenever you start getting troubles (I'd guess 8.00). Then I would stay with the load that feels comfortable and performs the best for that particular gun. You might be surprised and end up using a "weak" load that will outperform the hot one.

Tubby45 · January 12th, 2008, 03:28 AM

I am at a loss. I have no idea what is going on. If you can post pics of the stoppages I might be able to figure something out.

From another forum the suggestions were:

Extractor out of spec

Seems like the cartridge is actually chambering all the way but the extractor is sitting against the back of the case which keeps the slide from going into battery. Could be the coating on the bullets being hinky with the feed ramp.

A guy who is the freaking Godfather of the reloading subforum on GT said to pull a handload and seat a bullet from the WWB factory stuff to the same OAL as your handloads. If it feeds, then it is a bullet issue. If it doesn't feed either, it's a chamber issue. Get the barrel throated or get a different one. Don't use live rounds. Just dummy's. Powder and primer isn't going to change anything.

Hard to diagnose off of descriptions. Let me sleep on it.

JEFFBUZZZ · January 12th, 2008, 10:59 AM

all the rounds feed perfect .yes the extractor is sitting againest the back of the case,but it only does it with reloads,with stock ammo it works perfect. i think i'll make some more and try them in one of my other 1911 's
thanks for all help guys

Tubby45 · January 12th, 2008, 12:47 PM

When you mean your extractor is sitting against the back of the case, you mean it is not grabbing the rim of the case but is resting against the case head (flat part where the caliber is stamped)?

I need some pictures to know what is going on exactly. I cannot understand what is happening here. It seems like an extractor issue, but if the WWB rounds feed and chamber fine it is your reloads. Your OAL is pretty short for the 230gr bullet. From what others have said your calipers might be reading wrong. The bullet diameter should be .451-.4515". How much bell are you putting on the case mouth? You should barely bell the mouth. All you want to do is bell enough to let the bullet slide in. It doesn't take that much.

Things raised by the other forum:

Quote:

I have had problems previously with truncated bullets and had to seat shorter. Another problem I've had with not just 1911's but other firearms with " match grade" barrels is with the brass, especially in 45 acp. I have some brass which has been loaded somewhere around 20 times. To my knowledge 45 acp brass doesn't wear out, but it does shrink with usage. Had a reputable aftermarket barrel maker who dealt in precision, " match grade" barrels tell me their barrels didn't much like brass that was on it's 4th time plus reloadings. Kimber barrels are match grade, and he doesn't have a problem with factory ammo, and his bullets seem to be in check. So how many times has the brass on his reloads been worked?

These next two aren't sugar coated. Nothing personal from them.

Quote:

Reads like the guy doesn't know how to use a caliper or published load data . RN bullets should normally be loaded to about 1.250". .447" 45 bullets?, Load 250 without checking the first few? Rounds won't feed so he raises the powder charge? Reads like some of the new shooters that get heavier recoil springs when they have a FTF so they can chamber rounds, even if the rounds go in sideways.

Quote:

A couple of things jump out:

1. OAL is short for a 230gr RN bullet. I loaded the 230 precision bullets to 1.255 OAL.

2. It sounds like he might be belling the brass to much and then trying to solve the problem by overcrimping. This tends to cause a slight bulge towards the base of the round, and won't allow the round to chamber smoothly.

I think his reloads are to short.

Also, his caliper is off by .004, because his bullet measurements and crimp measurements are off by that much! Time to re-zero the calipers.

I'm going to see this thing through to the end but pics would greatly help. I won't leave you hanging.

JEFFBUZZZ · January 12th, 2008, 08:22 PM

on the lee loading data that came with the die 's it says hs6 at 8 gr for 230 gr with an oal of 1.200 for 825 fps.... iam using a full lenth sizing die set to just touch the shell holder .just barly putting any bell on at all .i bought the brass used so i dont know how many times they have been shot ,the guy i bought them from says once fired.the extractor is sitting just on the edge of the rim .if u can imagine it ,it's like if i was to round off the extractor it would fall right around the rim .if i put a round in the chamber and pull the slide all the way back by hand and let it go it goes into battery ,if i do the same thing but not quite all the way back with slide it repeats what happens when i fire a round.slide stops with extractor againest rim. i tried the same rounds in a five "1911 and the loads work .i use a digital mic it self zero's everytime it turns on .tubby i thank you for all the hard work on the problem ..my kimber is 4" rapter pro it has a 22lb spring in it macth grade bull barrel no bushing has about 500 rounds in it now

JEFFBUZZZ · January 12th, 2008, 08:26 PM

i dont have a digital camera right now i let my little girl talk me into letting her take it to school with her for a project and guess what happened ,yep got stole with 15 min left of her last class.oh well i thats how it goes sometimes

Miggy · January 12th, 2008, 08:37 PM

Jeff, which round "kicks" more? Factory or reload?

JEFFBUZZZ · January 12th, 2008, 08:40 PM

honestly i cant tell much difference,seem to be pretty close

January 12th, 2008, 02:17 AM	#23
Miggy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Miami-Dade, FL Posts: 4,545	Sound to me (and I am not even remotely as good as Tubby in a bad day before he started reloading) like the case is getting deformed (bulging) by too much pressure. From what others have posted, you are loading powder to the limit and it is not necessary for a 5 inch barrel. What I would do is load 5 rounds with 7.2 grains, then 5 rounds at 7.4, etc and stop whenever you start getting troubles (I'd guess 8.00). Then I would stay with the load that feels comfortable and performs the best for that particular gun. You might be surprised and end up using a "weak" load that will outperform the hot one. __________________ You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming. Randy Cain. GunFreeZone.net

January 12th, 2008, 08:37 PM	#29
Miggy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Miami-Dade, FL Posts: 4,545	Jeff, which round "kicks" more? Factory or reload? __________________ You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming. Randy Cain. GunFreeZone.net

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January 12th, 2008, 01:49 AM	#21
Tubby45 Distinguished Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: In the reloading room Posts: 1,988	Back off .5gr and keep it there. Honest truth about flattened primers is once you see them you are usually 20% over pressure. I'll check on some other forums and see if they can help us figure this out.

January 12th, 2008, 01:52 AM	#22
JEFFBUZZZ Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: georgia Posts: 36	ok thanks

January 12th, 2008, 03:28 AM	#24
Tubby45 Distinguished Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: In the reloading room Posts: 1,988	I am at a loss. I have no idea what is going on. If you can post pics of the stoppages I might be able to figure something out. From another forum the suggestions were: Extractor out of spec Seems like the cartridge is actually chambering all the way but the extractor is sitting against the back of the case which keeps the slide from going into battery. Could be the coating on the bullets being hinky with the feed ramp. A guy who is the freaking Godfather of the reloading subforum on GT said to pull a handload and seat a bullet from the WWB factory stuff to the same OAL as your handloads. If it feeds, then it is a bullet issue. If it doesn't feed either, it's a chamber issue. Get the barrel throated or get a different one. Don't use live rounds. Just dummy's. Powder and primer isn't going to change anything. Hard to diagnose off of descriptions. Let me sleep on it.

January 12th, 2008, 10:59 AM	#25
JEFFBUZZZ Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: georgia Posts: 36	all the rounds feed perfect .yes the extractor is sitting againest the back of the case,but it only does it with reloads,with stock ammo it works perfect. i think i'll make some more and try them in one of my other 1911 's thanks for all help guys

January 12th, 2008, 08:22 PM	#27
JEFFBUZZZ Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: georgia Posts: 36	on the lee loading data that came with the die 's it says hs6 at 8 gr for 230 gr with an oal of 1.200 for 825 fps.... iam using a full lenth sizing die set to just touch the shell holder .just barly putting any bell on at all .i bought the brass used so i dont know how many times they have been shot ,the guy i bought them from says once fired.the extractor is sitting just on the edge of the rim .if u can imagine it ,it's like if i was to round off the extractor it would fall right around the rim .if i put a round in the chamber and pull the slide all the way back by hand and let it go it goes into battery ,if i do the same thing but not quite all the way back with slide it repeats what happens when i fire a round.slide stops with extractor againest rim. i tried the same rounds in a five "1911 and the loads work .i use a digital mic it self zero's everytime it turns on .tubby i thank you for all the hard work on the problem ..my kimber is 4" rapter pro it has a 22lb spring in it macth grade bull barrel no bushing has about 500 rounds in it now

January 12th, 2008, 08:26 PM	#28
JEFFBUZZZ Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: georgia Posts: 36	i dont have a digital camera right now i let my little girl talk me into letting her take it to school with her for a project and guess what happened ,yep got stole with 15 min left of her last class.oh well i thats how it goes sometimes

January 12th, 2008, 08:40 PM	#30
JEFFBUZZZ Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: georgia Posts: 36	honestly i cant tell much difference,seem to be pretty close