Reloading

Danger Mouse · January 14th, 2008, 04:54 PM

can any minute changes in reloading change the accuracy, even if using the same primers, powder, and bullets?
Example:
First reloads .45 ACP
Winchester primers
Win 231 powder Lee book calls for 4.8 min 5.5 max - reloaded with 5.2
200 grain cowboy action LRN bullets
OAL Lee book states not less than 1.90, I set OAL at 1.95
Accuracy @ 21 feet with G30 was about 3 inch group

New reloads: .45 ACP
Winchester primers
Win 231 powder Lee book calls for 4.8 min 5.5 max - reloaded with 5.0
200 grain cowboy action LRN bullets
OAL Lee book states not less than 1.90, I set OAL at 1.90
Accuracy @ 21 feet with G30 Terrible! about 10 inch!

Notice the only thing changed was the OAL dropped by .05" and used .2 grams less powder. Is this change enough to effect the accuracy that much?

bmcgilvray · January 14th, 2008, 07:06 PM

Not really. I can flinch more than that. I can't imagine that such small changes would translate to such large accuracy variations at 21 feet. I'd be looking for some other sort of mechanical reason for such a fluctuation.

You mention lead bullets. Could barrel leading have taken it's toll between the testing of the first batch and the second?

Ambient temperature differences can affect velocities of a given load more than the incremental differences in loads that you illustrate. Seating depth can make a distinct difference but not nearly that much. My ancient Colt Model 1901 in .38 Long Colt has a .363 bore diameter and throws more accurate keyholes at that distance with .358 diamenter semi-wadcutters than the results you're obtaining from that second load.

Ram Rod · January 14th, 2008, 10:05 PM

I don't reload for pistol calibers (yet). You are talking about 5/100ths of an inch here. Me-and my rifle calibers, I'm worrying about thousandths of an inch. .003 to .006 can mean alot in rifle loads especially if you're already within 3/1000ths of touching the lands. Did you see any signs of higher pressures with the 1.95"? Chamber one to see if the rifling engraves the bullet? Again--just a rifle reloader here, to me 5/100ths is an OAL change I'll never see.

rocky · January 14th, 2008, 10:14 PM

I thought Glocks were not suppose to use lead bullets due to polygonal rifling and lead build up?

Ram Rod · January 14th, 2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

I thought Glocks were not suppose to use lead bullets due to polygonal rifling and lead build up?

Yeah---that too!

Tubby45 · January 14th, 2008, 10:54 PM

You can shoot lead in Glocks but it usually has to be hard alloy and you need to clean it out every 100-200rds.

HKs also have poly rifling.

Accuracy can go one way or the other and can be pretty dramatic. Sometimes a tenth of a grain is all it takes. Shoot more at that second load and see what happens. Might be a fluke.

Sharp · January 14th, 2008, 11:51 PM

He may have dropped an after market barrel in the G30. If not, then as bmcgilvray said maybe the lead fouling was to blame. Were both of these loads shot on the same day?(everybody has their off days) How consistently uniformed is the lead?

friesepferd · January 14th, 2008, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tubby45

HKs also have poly rifling.

woh, i didnt know that. is it better to just not use lead then?
or at least clean it a lot?

rocky · January 15th, 2008, 12:07 AM

It is tough getting fouling out sometimes. Guess it depends on how much cleaning you are willing to do. I use plated bullets. They are cheap, but seem to leave less lead fouling , compared to lead bullets.

HotGuns · January 15th, 2008, 12:10 AM

Quote:

OAL Lee book states not less than 1.90, I set OAL at 1.95

That is a .050 difference, or 50 thousanths. That is a lot of difference.

Also, you are using bullets meant for a .45 Colt, which is different than a .45 ACP. The .45 Colt bullets are meant for a revolver, not a semi auto.

You nose profile is round, but your bearing area is minimal, meaning that you have a small bearing surface on your bullet to contact the barrel. This makes for an unstable bullet, which although it works OK for the .45 Colt, makes it leass than desirable for the ACP.

Also, one of the reasons NOT to shoot lead in the standard polygonal rifling is that the base of the bullets dont quite obturate and seal the bore when being shot....this causes exessive leading which results in poor accuracy.

Any semi auto ought to be able to do 2 inches from the bench at 25 yards.

First thing I would do is try a jacketed bullet, one meant for the ACP, and not the Colt.

January 14th, 2008, 04:54 PM	#1
Danger Mouse Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cumberland, VA Posts: 362	Reloading can any minute changes in reloading change the accuracy, even if using the same primers, powder, and bullets? Example: First reloads .45 ACP Winchester primers Win 231 powder Lee book calls for 4.8 min 5.5 max - reloaded with 5.2 200 grain cowboy action LRN bullets OAL Lee book states not less than 1.90, I set OAL at 1.95 Accuracy @ 21 feet with G30 was about 3 inch group New reloads: .45 ACP Winchester primers Win 231 powder Lee book calls for 4.8 min 5.5 max - reloaded with 5.0 200 grain cowboy action LRN bullets OAL Lee book states not less than 1.90, I set OAL at 1.90 Accuracy @ 21 feet with G30 Terrible! about 10 inch! Notice the only thing changed was the OAL dropped by .05" and used .2 grams less powder. Is this change enough to effect the accuracy that much? __________________ Think twice Buy once!

January 14th, 2008, 10:05 PM	#3
Ram Rod VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: crawford county, arkansas Posts: 5,206	I don't reload for pistol calibers (yet). You are talking about 5/100ths of an inch here. Me-and my rifle calibers, I'm worrying about thousandths of an inch. .003 to .006 can mean alot in rifle loads especially if you're already within 3/1000ths of touching the lands. Did you see any signs of higher pressures with the 1.95"? Chamber one to see if the rifling engraves the bullet? Again--just a rifle reloader here, to me 5/100ths is an OAL change I'll never see. __________________ RamRod-----sans remords

January 14th, 2008, 10:14 PM	#4
rocky Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MI Posts: 11,768	I thought Glocks were not suppose to use lead bullets due to polygonal rifling and lead build up? __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson Nemo Me Impune Lacesset Link to my kydex builds:http://rocknloadkydex.blogspot.com/

January 15th, 2008, 12:07 AM	#9
rocky Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MI Posts: 11,768	It is tough getting fouling out sometimes. Guess it depends on how much cleaning you are willing to do. I use plated bullets. They are cheap, but seem to leave less lead fouling , compared to lead bullets. __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson Nemo Me Impune Lacesset Link to my kydex builds:http://rocknloadkydex.blogspot.com/

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January 14th, 2008, 07:06 PM	#2
bmcgilvray Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Texas Posts: 1,152	Not really. I can flinch more than that. I can't imagine that such small changes would translate to such large accuracy variations at 21 feet. I'd be looking for some other sort of mechanical reason for such a fluctuation. You mention lead bullets. Could barrel leading have taken it's toll between the testing of the first batch and the second? Ambient temperature differences can affect velocities of a given load more than the incremental differences in loads that you illustrate. Seating depth can make a distinct difference but not nearly that much. My ancient Colt Model 1901 in .38 Long Colt has a .363 bore diameter and throws more accurate keyholes at that distance with .358 diamenter semi-wadcutters than the results you're obtaining from that second load.

January 14th, 2008, 10:54 PM	#6
Tubby45 Distinguished Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: In the reloading room Posts: 1,988	You can shoot lead in Glocks but it usually has to be hard alloy and you need to clean it out every 100-200rds. HKs also have poly rifling. Accuracy can go one way or the other and can be pretty dramatic. Sometimes a tenth of a grain is all it takes. Shoot more at that second load and see what happens. Might be a fluke.

January 14th, 2008, 11:51 PM	#7
Sharp Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: FL Posts: 79	He may have dropped an after market barrel in the G30. If not, then as bmcgilvray said maybe the lead fouling was to blame. Were both of these loads shot on the same day?(everybody has their off days) How consistently uniformed is the lead?