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Second Amendment Discussion & News We all know people that are "anti-gun". Make your best argument, post statistics, stories, etc that may help state why legal gun ownership is a good thing. Help us all by posting only accurate information.

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Old May 28th, 2007, 12:18 PM   #11
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I suppose you guys are right. Fighting this guy is a waste of energy. He certainly will be notified of his loss of votes. He also might get the link to the "robbed Rep" story.
Wrong tactic. Call him on it. Tell him you're interested in his perspective and would like to know what statistics he's seen which point to CCW causing shootings. You'll get some song and dance, and he'll probably come up with some generalized statistics somewhere. Have your own verifiable statistics ready (which, more than likely, indicate that CCW holders are involved in significantly less violent crimes of any type). Hit him with that, see what he does. Try to catch him in a lie.

If you can get it done, proceed to send the correspondance to the local newspapers, media outlets, etc. Post it all over the Internet. Make people see he's a liar.

Then vote him out of office next time around.
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Old May 28th, 2007, 12:38 PM   #12
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Wrong tactic. Call him on it. Have your own verifiable statistics ready ... Hit him with that, see what he does. Try to catch him in a lie.
Ditto.

Liars, cheaters & theives. These days, if you hold public office, you must proactively earn appellations to the contrary. Let him have it, with both "barrels": factual basis for concealed carriers being some of the most upstanding citizens, trends showing more-restrictive policies correlating to (typically) a higher per-capita incidence of violent crime, etc. If you get the ol' weaseling song-and-dance, make the exchange public.
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Old May 28th, 2007, 04:54 PM   #13
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I lived in Michigan for 30 years before moving to Florida several years ago, prior to the enactment of the "shall Issue" statute. Too many people worked too hard to get that statute passed, to let that guy off the hook. Please stay with it and follow up.

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Old May 28th, 2007, 11:27 PM   #14
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I live in Michigan...

And what the other guy said give him a call and send him a link to the Michigan State police site, their data would seem to refute his opinion.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 03:59 AM   #15
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Don't waste your time trying to change this guy's mind or enlist his support for the cause. You're fighting a losing battle. His mind is made up, regardless of the facts.
100% correct. He is a lost cause; that is evident by how utterly STUPID one would have to be to reply with what he said. As though so much of the violent crime he's citing is done by permit holders?! Yeah, right. That just clearly exposes his obvious bias against guns regardless of any facts.

You would be wasting your time trying to change his way of thinking (I use the term "thinking" very loosely). Better off supporting his opponent(s).
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Old May 29th, 2007, 04:02 AM   #16
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Wrong tactic. Call him on it. Tell him you're interested in his perspective and would like to know what statistics he's seen which point to CCW causing shootings. You'll get some song and dance, and he'll probably come up with some generalized statistics somewhere. Have your own verifiable statistics ready (which, more than likely, indicate that CCW holders are involved in significantly less violent crimes of any type). Hit him with that, see what he does. Try to catch him in a lie.
Okay, at face value, this all seems to make sense.

But it makes a fatally flawed assumption, and that is that the guy WANTS TO BOTHER with facts and truths.

The reason I say don't even try to convert him is because I firmly believe that anyone who would say what he said in his reply is a person who is steadfast and willfully disingenuous about this issue and will not allow his mind to be changed. Thus, you would be wasting your time. He'll only get more adamant and resolute, until such time as he puts on an act of being frustrated by you, pretends that you are the one being unreasonable, and shuts you out.

Come on, folks, we've seen this type. We know what they're like.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 04:11 AM   #17
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Come on, folks, we've seen this type. We know what they're like.
Kind of like when an inadequate politician makes the general assumption that guns equate to crime, right? Jumping to conclusions isn't the answer here, give him a chance to learn before throwing in the towel. The same treatment that we should be getting, however we don't always get it. At least be fair so he deserves whats coming to him!
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Old May 29th, 2007, 09:34 AM   #18
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.

You would be wasting your time trying to change his way of thinking (I use the term "thinking" very loosely). Better off supporting his opponent(s).
You are probably correct, but, if he is willing to "Waste his time" I think that it is a mistake to let those kinds of misstatments go unchallenged. And, of course, also support his opponents.

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Old May 29th, 2007, 12:00 PM   #19
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Thus, you would be wasting your time. He'll only get more adamant and resolute, until such time as he puts on an act of being frustrated by you, pretends that you are the one being unreasonable, and shuts you out.
I think you're immediately assuming him to be another bonehead politician that won't listen. You're most likely right. However, it's worth a shot to see if he's not and might be swayed by facts. If you are right, it's worth gathering the exchange and then disseminating it far and wide (including to any state-level gun rights orgs of which the OP might be a member) to make sure everyone else knows.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 01:19 PM   #20
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Think I'd write and tell him that you and a lot of your voting and gun owning friends just volunteered to be part of the campaign to elect "whoever" was running against him at the next election. I'd remind him that his personal opinion about guns shouldn't determine how he votes or what bills he backs; his constituents opinions are what count. He supposed to be a "servant of the public", not a lord and master as he seems to think he is. Too many of our elected representatives are starting to believe in "noblesse oblige" and are starting to think of us "serfs or peons" as not being able to decide or think for ourselves.
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