The End of America: May 10, 2005/National ID - Page 3

HotGuns · May 13th, 2005, 04:39 PM

Yep...and a few years from now someone will declare that EMP from Computer monitors and the act of sitting in a chair for hours at a time while typing on internet bulletin boards will kill you...

Today it is the National ID card.

but soon thereafter even THAT wont be enough. When is anybodys guess. What is gonna be then ? Whatever it may be it'll be as a response to a crisis...etheir natural or manmade...

Euclidean · May 13th, 2005, 05:50 PM

Hotguns is right.

Big picture folks.

American stopped caring about the second amendment right after the Civil War, possibly before.

We have to fight the tide.

I like you guys and all, but it's none of your gosh darn business what my blood type is, how much money I make every year, or what my cell phone number is.

And it's no one's business whether or not I own a gun, what kind, or how many. The current system is already over the top.

Bud White · May 13th, 2005, 06:19 PM

Euc you mean ya wont give me you cell # so i can call and talk about wheelies?

QKShooter · May 13th, 2005, 06:24 PM

We Agree. But, they already have that info.
On a more positive note...if Govt actually ever starts putting innocent Americans in the crosshairs then as far as I'm concerned it will be like 1812 all over again and if....I can still stand up (if and when) that fateful day ever arrives...I'll be standing right there beside you.
Concerning the overall "quality" of the United States Citizenry...we are probably headed for the fate of the Aztecs, Mayans & the Roman Empire anyway.
I DO believe that American Society has already reached its plateau & has started down the opposite side & slipping into The Valley Of The Kings.
Just my "gut feeling" personal opinion.

Euclidean · May 13th, 2005, 06:48 PM

I work with America's youth every day.

Thus I have to disagree with the assessment that there is no hope, that there is no way back up the slippery slope.

HotGuns · May 13th, 2005, 07:18 PM

I DO believe that American Society has already reached its plateau & has started down the opposite side & slipping into The Valley Of The Kings.
Just my "gut feeling" personal opinion.

Agreed...

Just walk into any local Walmart and look around...

And Euc...
my wife is a teacher. She deals with kids day in and day out. Precious few have a clue about much of anything. They are definatley in the minority....

Deke45 · May 13th, 2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud White

Euc you mean ya wont give me you cell # so i can call and talk about wheelies?

Or borrow a couple bucks!

Prospector · May 13th, 2005, 08:28 PM

I don't subscribe to panic, and I don't think National ID cards
are gonna happen today, but I do pay attention to the "worldly-minded"
idiots that are in charge of running our beloved country, and there is a
defnite pattern emerging....I can recall the Nat ID topic cropping up in
the late 80's, but it didn't stay news worthy....but believe it there are
folks out there that have this on their agenda and won't stop pressing it
until it is a done deal. There are obvious pros and cons like with any issue,
but don't be fooled in thinking this is one that is just gonna go away....take
a look at the bigger picture of where our Govt folks are driving us....Bush too,
and I voted for him....we're a "Global Society" if you buy into that ilk....take a
look at the legislation that supports that direction. Bush spouts relaxing the flow from Mexico because of the "cheap labor" needed here....believe me there
are plans being laid to essentially make us borderless.

Don't believe the Nat ID is an issue? Just do a simple Google search....here are a few links I snapped up.

http://www.privacy.org/pi/activities/idcard/

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst090604.htm

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...191857,00.html

http://news.com.com/National+ID+card...3-5573414.html

Sorry, haven't figured out how to make them links....just copy and paste into
your browser.....that is, if you're even interested.....else, Have A Nice Day!

Monty · May 13th, 2005, 10:33 PM

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2005/tst050905.htm

National ID Cards Won't Stop Terrorism or Illegal Immigration

May 9, 2005

The US House of Representatives passed a spending bill last week that contains provisions establishing a national ID card, and the Senate is poised to approve the measure in the next few days. This week marks the American public’s last chance to convince their Senators they don’t want to live in a nation that demands papers from its citizens as they go about their lives.

Absent a political miracle in the Senate, within two years every American will need a conforming national ID card to participate in ordinary activities. This REAL ID Act establishes a massive, centrally-coordinated database of highly personal information about American citizens: at a minimum their name, date of birth, place of residence, Social Security number, and physical characteristics. The legislation also grants open-ended authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to require biometric information on IDs in the future. This means your harmless looking driver’s license could contain a retina scan, fingerprints, DNA information, or radio frequency technology.

Think this sounds farfetched? Read the REAL ID Act, HR 418, for yourself. Its text is available on the Library of Congress website. A careful reading also reveals that states will be required to participate in the “Drivers License Agreement,” which was crafted by DMV lobbyists years ago. This agreement creates a massive database of sensitive information on American citizens that can be shared with Canada and Mexico!

Terrorism is the excuse given for virtually every new power grab by the federal government, and the national ID is no exception. But federal agencies have tried to create a national ID for years, long before the 9-11 attacks. In fact, a 1996 bill sought to do exactly what the REAL ID Act does: transform state drivers’ licenses into de facto national ID cards. At the time, Congress was flooded with calls by angry constituents and the bill ultimately died.

Proponents of the REAL ID Act continue to make the preposterous claim that the bill does not establish a national ID card. This is dangerous and insulting nonsense. Let’s get the facts straight: The REAL ID Act transforms state motor vehicle departments into agents of the federal government. Nationalizing standards for driver's licenses and birth certificates in a federal bill creates a national ID system, pure and simple. Having the name of your particular state on the ID is meaningless window dressing.

Federally imposed standards for drivers' license and birth certificates make a mockery of federalism and the 10th amendment. While states technically are not forced to accept the federal standards, any refusal to comply would mean their residents could not get a job, receive Social Security, or travel by plane. So rather than imposing a direct mandate on the states, the federal government is blackmailing them into complying with federal dictates.

One overriding point has been forgotten: Criminals don’t obey laws! As with gun control, national ID cards will only affect law-abiding citizens. Do we really believe a terrorist bent on murder is going to dutifully obtain a federal ID card? Do we believe that people who openly flout our immigration laws will nonetheless respect our ID requirements? Any ID card can be forged; any federal agency or state DMV is susceptible to corruption. Criminals can and will obtain national ID cards, or operate without them. National ID cards will be used to track the law-abiding masses, not criminals.

QKShooter · May 13th, 2005, 11:44 PM

You Said:
"National ID cards will be used to track the law-abiding masses, not criminals."
What makes the average law-abiding citizen so doggone interesting that anybody would even WANT to track him or her. I honestly AM curious about that.
Example:
QKShooter got up in the morning. Took Shower. Exited home & went halfway down front walkway to retrieve morning newspaper. He had a bowl of Honey Nut Shredded Wheat and a strong cup of coffee (Black w/ Sugar) - He walked the dog. Dog pooed. Then he left his residence and headed for CVS to buy an emergency tube of Mega Hold Mega Gel for his wife's hair. Bought cigarettes KOOL Filter Kings...very suspicious...he told his Mother that he quit (as per recent phone tap conversation) ~ Suspect lied to his own Mother. We got him now!

Bought bulk quantity of dark colored colored T~Shirts on ebay size XXL.
Then he trimmed his hedges before heading up to the hardware store to buy a spark plug & some spray "contact cleaner" for his lawn mower.
Suspect then drove his Mother In Law out to the cemetery so that she could plant some stupid flowers.
Stopped at post office - bought stamps - paid CASH.
Attn: - U.S. Government...track me until you fall over and die from sheer boredom!

Yeah...I know...That's NOT the point!!!...but WHAT are YOU doing as your Everyday Law Abiding Average Joe Citizen that's just so doggone absolutely incredible that anybody would even want to waste time, money, & manpower tracking you.
I mean even if you were "happily married" with 3 cute kids and were boffing the cute English Housekeeper and were out playing strip poker & smoking cheap cigars and watching dirty videos when you while supposed to be in Punxsutawney nursing your poor sick old Aunt Bessie back to health...who daheck would even care one iota these days?
Just wondering.
For sure Not Me...even if I were the head of the CIA.

You wanna go to the gun shop and legally buy a nasty looking assault weapon??? Go buy one. Knock yourself out...buy 2!
Trust me they will already know you have them...even without the ID card.

May 13th, 2005, 05:50 PM	#22
Euclidean VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 3,213	Hotguns is right. Big picture folks. American stopped caring about the second amendment right after the Civil War, possibly before. We have to fight the tide. I like you guys and all, but it's none of your gosh darn business what my blood type is, how much money I make every year, or what my cell phone number is. And it's no one's business whether or not I own a gun, what kind, or how many. The current system is already over the top. __________________ I am The Armed Educator.

May 13th, 2005, 06:24 PM	#24
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Runthegun, USA Posts: 18,777	Euclidean We Agree. But, they already have that info. On a more positive note...if Govt actually ever starts putting innocent Americans in the crosshairs then as far as I'm concerned it will be like 1812 all over again and if....I can still stand up (if and when) that fateful day ever arrives...I'll be standing right there beside you. Concerning the overall "quality" of the United States Citizenry...we are probably headed for the fate of the Aztecs, Mayans & the Roman Empire anyway. I DO believe that American Society has already reached its plateau & has started down the opposite side & slipping into The Valley Of The Kings. Just my "gut feeling" personal opinion. __________________ *Support Our Troops* How Very Fortunate You Are To Have Two Arms To Put Into A Ward 57 T-Shirt. DC MEMBERS ~ PLEASE BUY A WARD 57 SHIRT. Click Here.

May 13th, 2005, 06:48 PM	#25
Euclidean VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 3,213	I work with America's youth every day. Thus I have to disagree with the assessment that there is no hope, that there is no way back up the slippery slope. __________________ I am The Armed Educator.

May 13th, 2005, 08:28 PM	#28
Prospector Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 615	I don't subscribe to panic, and I don't think National ID cards are gonna happen today, but I do pay attention to the "worldly-minded" idiots that are in charge of running our beloved country, and there is a defnite pattern emerging....I can recall the Nat ID topic cropping up in the late 80's, but it didn't stay news worthy....but believe it there are folks out there that have this on their agenda and won't stop pressing it until it is a done deal. There are obvious pros and cons like with any issue, but don't be fooled in thinking this is one that is just gonna go away....take a look at the bigger picture of where our Govt folks are driving us....Bush too, and I voted for him....we're a "Global Society" if you buy into that ilk....take a look at the legislation that supports that direction. Bush spouts relaxing the flow from Mexico because of the "cheap labor" needed here....believe me there are plans being laid to essentially make us borderless. Don't believe the Nat ID is an issue? Just do a simple Google search....here are a few links I snapped up. http://www.privacy.org/pi/activities/idcard/ http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst090604.htm http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...191857,00.html http://news.com.com/National+ID+card...3-5573414.html Sorry, haven't figured out how to make them links....just copy and paste into your browser.....that is, if you're even interested.....else, Have A Nice Day! __________________ "*Endeavor To Persevere*" Chief Dan George

May 13th, 2005, 10:33 PM	#29
Monty Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 65	Some more from Ron Paul http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2005/tst050905.htm National ID Cards Won't Stop Terrorism or Illegal Immigration May 9, 2005 The US House of Representatives passed a spending bill last week that contains provisions establishing a national ID card, and the Senate is poised to approve the measure in the next few days. This week marks the American public’s last chance to convince their Senators they don’t want to live in a nation that demands papers from its citizens as they go about their lives. Absent a political miracle in the Senate, within two years every American will need a conforming national ID card to participate in ordinary activities. This REAL ID Act establishes a massive, centrally-coordinated database of highly personal information about American citizens: at a minimum their name, date of birth, place of residence, Social Security number, and physical characteristics. The legislation also grants open-ended authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to require biometric information on IDs in the future. This means your harmless looking driver’s license could contain a retina scan, fingerprints, DNA information, or radio frequency technology. Think this sounds farfetched? Read the REAL ID Act, HR 418, for yourself. Its text is available on the Library of Congress website. A careful reading also reveals that states will be required to participate in the “Drivers License Agreement,” which was crafted by DMV lobbyists years ago. This agreement creates a massive database of sensitive information on American citizens that can be shared with Canada and Mexico! Terrorism is the excuse given for virtually every new power grab by the federal government, and the national ID is no exception. But federal agencies have tried to create a national ID for years, long before the 9-11 attacks. In fact, a 1996 bill sought to do exactly what the REAL ID Act does: transform state drivers’ licenses into de facto national ID cards. At the time, Congress was flooded with calls by angry constituents and the bill ultimately died. Proponents of the REAL ID Act continue to make the preposterous claim that the bill does not establish a national ID card. This is dangerous and insulting nonsense. Let’s get the facts straight: The REAL ID Act transforms state motor vehicle departments into agents of the federal government. Nationalizing standards for driver's licenses and birth certificates in a federal bill creates a national ID system, pure and simple. Having the name of your particular state on the ID is meaningless window dressing. Federally imposed standards for drivers' license and birth certificates make a mockery of federalism and the 10th amendment. While states technically are not forced to accept the federal standards, any refusal to comply would mean their residents could not get a job, receive Social Security, or travel by plane. So rather than imposing a direct mandate on the states, the federal government is blackmailing them into complying with federal dictates. One overriding point has been forgotten: Criminals don’t obey laws! As with gun control, national ID cards will only affect law-abiding citizens. Do we really believe a terrorist bent on murder is going to dutifully obtain a federal ID card? Do we believe that people who openly flout our immigration laws will nonetheless respect our ID requirements? Any ID card can be forged; any federal agency or state DMV is susceptible to corruption. Criminals can and will obtain national ID cards, or operate without them. National ID cards will be used to track the law-abiding masses, not criminals.

May 13th, 2005, 04:39 PM	#21
HotGuns VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 4,518	Yep...and a few years from now someone will declare that EMP from Computer monitors and the act of sitting in a chair for hours at a time while typing on internet bulletin boards will kill you... Today it is the National ID card. but soon thereafter even THAT wont be enough. When is anybodys guess. What is gonna be then ? Whatever it may be it'll be as a response to a crisis...etheir natural or manmade...

May 13th, 2005, 06:19 PM	#23
Bud White VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 17,476	Euc you mean ya wont give me you cell # so i can call and talk about wheelies?

May 13th, 2005, 07:18 PM	#26
HotGuns VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 4,518	I DO believe that American Society has already reached its plateau & has started down the opposite side & slipping into The Valley Of The Kings. Just my "gut feeling" personal opinion. Agreed... Just walk into any local Walmart and look around... And Euc... my wife is a teacher. She deals with kids day in and day out. Precious few have a clue about much of anything. They are definatley in the minority....

May 13th, 2005, 11:44 PM	#30
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Runthegun, USA Posts: 18,777	Question You Said: "National ID cards will be used to track the law-abiding masses, not criminals." What makes the average law-abiding citizen so doggone interesting that anybody would even WANT to track him or her. I honestly AM curious about that. Example: QKShooter got up in the morning. Took Shower. Exited home & went halfway down front walkway to retrieve morning newspaper. He had a bowl of Honey Nut Shredded Wheat and a strong cup of coffee (Black w/ Sugar) - He walked the dog. Dog pooed. Then he left his residence and headed for CVS to buy an emergency tube of Mega Hold Mega Gel for his wife's hair. Bought cigarettes KOOL Filter Kings...very suspicious...he told his Mother that he quit (as per recent phone tap conversation) ~ Suspect lied to his own Mother. We got him now! Bought bulk quantity of dark colored colored T~Shirts on ebay size XXL. Then he trimmed his hedges before heading up to the hardware store to buy a spark plug & some spray "contact cleaner" for his lawn mower. Suspect then drove his Mother In Law out to the cemetery so that she could plant some stupid flowers. Stopped at post office - bought stamps - paid CASH. Attn: - U.S. Government...track me until you fall over and die from sheer boredom! Yeah...I know...That's NOT the point!!!...but WHAT are YOU doing as your Everyday Law Abiding Average Joe Citizen that's just so doggone absolutely incredible that anybody would even want to waste time, money, & manpower tracking you. I mean even if you were "happily married" with 3 cute kids and were boffing the cute English Housekeeper and were out playing strip poker & smoking cheap cigars and watching dirty videos when you while supposed to be in Punxsutawney nursing your poor sick old Aunt Bessie back to health...who daheck would even care one iota these days? Just wondering. For sure Not Me...even if I were the head of the CIA. You wanna go to the gun shop and legally buy a nasty looking assault weapon??? Go buy one. Knock yourself out...buy 2! Trust me they will already know you have them...even without the ID card. __________________ *Support Our Troops* How Very Fortunate You Are To Have Two Arms To Put Into A Ward 57 T-Shirt. DC MEMBERS ~ PLEASE BUY A WARD 57 SHIRT. Click Here. Last edited by QKShooter; May 14th, 2005 at 12:06 AM. Reason: Correct Typo

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode